WRHB vs CuNiFe

ToneControl

ICBM said:

timmypix said:

So, armed with that information, why all the fuss about CuNiFe when FeCrCo sounds the same and is more available? Or is it just marketing and nostalgia?

If it's "the original material" it *must* be better, and give that "vintage correct tone" which any substitute doesn't... it's in the rules.









AKA a rose-tinted rear-view mirror.

It's a real shame that since guitar pickups were invented, we've been able to invent so many things, 
but have not been able to improve the design of these simple magnet based pickups

Oh hang on, we have.......

Philly_Q

Alexlotl said:

WRT to FeCrCo, Some of the new pickups they issued in the same range (e.g. standard Tele) use FeCrCo, which they call Cobalt Chrome. There’s a good video with Tim Shaw here - he claims CuNiFe and FeCrCo sound quite different, and they picked whichever magnet best matched the guitar’s customary tone. 

I've got no horse in this race, I've never owned or even played a guitar with CuNiFe or FeCrCo pickups, but whatever the differences, that's a very interesting video with some lovely playing.

Revolutions

I just built a tele deluxe with reissue WRHB. For the cost, I’m not absolutely sold on them being a whole lot better than a quality PAF copy for 1/2 the price.

willo

Philly_Q said:

I've got no horse in this race, I've never owned or even played a guitar with CuNiFe or FeCrCo pickups, but whatever the differences, that's a very interesting video with some lovely playing.

If you like his playing, the guitarist's name is Michael Lemmo and you can catch his playing daily on Norms Rare Guitars YouTube. I think he's very tasteful.

stickyfiddle

willo said:

Philly_Q said:

I've got no horse in this race, I've never owned or even played a guitar with CuNiFe or FeCrCo pickups, but whatever the differences, that's a very interesting video with some lovely playing.

If you like his playing, the guitarist's name is Michael Lemmo and you can catch his playing daily on Norms Rare Guitars YouTube. I think he's very tasteful.

Ooh good spot - he's phenomenal

Philly_Q

willo said:

Philly_Q said:

I've got no horse in this race, I've never owned or even played a guitar with CuNiFe or FeCrCo pickups, but whatever the differences, that's a very interesting video with some lovely playing.

If you like his playing, the guitarist's name is Michael Lemmo and you can catch his playing daily on Norms Rare Guitars YouTube. I think he's very tasteful.

Yes, I gathered it was him from the comments. I've seen some of the Norm's videos and to be honest his playing is sometimes a bit *too* tasteful for my brutish sensibilities, but on that Fender clip he manages the rare feat of making unaccompanied solo guitar actually sound interesting.

lovestrat74

Decorativeed said:

I've bought one of the Fender CuNiFe WRHBs second hand recently, and was a bit suspicious when it turned up and the pole pieces were slightly chewed up around the slots. I realised that someone could easily have bought the pickup and swapped the CuNiFe pole pieces for whatever the older reissue versions used then sold it on in the new pacakaging and there's no way for the buyer to tell unless they're a metallurgy expert. 

If in doubt, send it back. Well, that's what I would do..

Decorativeed

lovestrat74 said:

Decorativeed said:

I've bought one of the Fender CuNiFe WRHBs second hand recently, and was a bit suspicious when it turned up and the pole pieces were slightly chewed up around the slots. I realised that someone could easily have bought the pickup and swapped the CuNiFe pole pieces for whatever the older reissue versions used then sold it on in the new pacakaging and there's no way for the buyer to tell unless they're a metallurgy expert. 

If in doubt, send it back. Well, that's what I would do..

I couldn't tell whether it was genuine doubt on my part or just paranoia. Also, it sounds great and a big improvement on the Squier WRHB lookalike that it replaced. 

Alexlotl

You should be able to remove one of the pole pieces entirely and see if it’s magnetic in isolation. But presumably in the absence of a bar magnet, non-magnetic pole pieces would have sod all output, so I suspect you’d have noticed by now.

One of my two second-hand WRHBs (the neck) also has slightly chewed pole pieces where the previous owner had adjusted them. I would guess CuNiFe is significantly softer than the carbon steel conventional pole pieces are made of, and as such easier to muck up if you go at it carelessly.

Decorativeed

Alexlotl said:

You should be able to remove one of the pole pieces entirely and see if it’s magnetic in isolation. But presumably in the absence of a bar magnet, non-magnetic pole pieces would have sod all output, so I suspect you’d have noticed by now.

One of my two second-hand WRHBs (the neck) also has slightly chewed pole pieces where the previous owner had adjusted them. I would guess CuNiFe is significantly softer than the carbon steel conventional pole pieces are made of, and as such easier to muck up if you go at it carelessly.

Yes, I started to believe that was most likely - someone adjusting the poles using a screwdriver with a smaller head and catching the softer metal in the process. 

Devil#20

This has been a very enlightening thread. However, now I've read it all I don't really understand the physics behind why a particular alloyed magnet would sound any better than any other alloyed magnet combination. CuNiFe, AlNiCo, FeCrCo. Isn't it purely down to the magnetic flux of the magnet? Surely the winding is what really gives the pickup it's particular sound for a given strength magnet? Is that not the case or is my thinking too simplistic? I guess that's a question for Ash.  

simonhpieman

Decorativeed said:

Alexlotl said:

You should be able to remove one of the pole pieces entirely and see if it’s magnetic in isolation. But presumably in the absence of a bar magnet, non-magnetic pole pieces would have sod all output, so I suspect you’d have noticed by now.

One of my two second-hand WRHBs (the neck) also has slightly chewed pole pieces where the previous owner had adjusted them. I would guess CuNiFe is significantly softer than the carbon steel conventional pole pieces are made of, and as such easier to muck up if you go at it carelessly.

Yes, I started to believe that was most likely - someone adjusting the poles using a screwdriver with a smaller head and catching the softer metal in the process. 

Just to second this, I can confirm CuNiFe pole pieces marr very, very easily!

Lebarque

Kittyfrisk said:

ICBM said:

timmypix said:

So, armed with that information, why all the fuss about CuNiFe when FeCrCo sounds the same and is more available? Or is it just marketing and nostalgia?

If it's "the original material" it *must* be better, and give that "vintage correct tone" which any substitute doesn't... it's in the rules.









AKA a rose-tinted rear-view mirror.

Naaah, you're talking to experienced, sensible, hard bitten guitar players here, that could never be a possibility...

Exactly. We're always open-minded to innovation and modern design.

Right, I'm off to play my Telecaster.

Lebarque

Revolutions said:

I just built a tele deluxe with reissue WRHB. For the cost, I’m not absolutely sold on them being a whole lot better than a quality PAF copy for 1/2 the price.

*Whispers* PAFs sound much better than any WRHBs.

Lebarque

Philly_Q said:

willo said:

Philly_Q said:

I've got no horse in this race, I've never owned or even played a guitar with CuNiFe or FeCrCo pickups, but whatever the differences, that's a very interesting video with some lovely playing.

If you like his playing, the guitarist's name is Michael Lemmo and you can catch his playing daily on Norms Rare Guitars YouTube. I think he's very tasteful.

Yes, I gathered it was him from the comments. I've seen some of the Norm's videos and to be honest his playing is sometimes a bit *too* tasteful for my brutish sensibilities, but on that Fender clip he manages the rare feat of making unaccompanied solo guitar actually sound interesting.

Yeh, love Lemmo's playing. But the rubbish sound on Norm's videos make them unwatchable for me. Just get a microphone FFS.

stickyfiddle

Lebarque said:

Philly_Q said:

willo said:

Philly_Q said:

I've got no horse in this race, I've never owned or even played a guitar with CuNiFe or FeCrCo pickups, but whatever the differences, that's a very interesting video with some lovely playing.

If you like his playing, the guitarist's name is Michael Lemmo and you can catch his playing daily on Norms Rare Guitars YouTube. I think he's very tasteful.

Yes, I gathered it was him from the comments. I've seen some of the Norm's videos and to be honest his playing is sometimes a bit *too* tasteful for my brutish sensibilities, but on that Fender clip he manages the rare feat of making unaccompanied solo guitar actually sound interesting.

Yeh, love Lemmo's playing. But the rubbish sound on Norm's videos make them unwatchable for me. Just get a microphone already.

Yeah I like the overall vibe of them but a lav mic for the presenter and even a fairly basic condenser on the amp would be such an improvement. 

BobHillman

stickyfiddle said:

Lebarque said:

Philly_Q said:

willo said:

Philly_Q said:

I've got no horse in this race, I've never owned or even played a guitar with CuNiFe or FeCrCo pickups, but whatever the differences, that's a very interesting video with some lovely playing.

If you like his playing, the guitarist's name is Michael Lemmo and you can catch his playing daily on Norms Rare Guitars YouTube. I think he's very tasteful.

Yes, I gathered it was him from the comments. I've seen some of the Norm's videos and to be honest his playing is sometimes a bit *too* tasteful for my brutish sensibilities, but on that Fender clip he manages the rare feat of making unaccompanied solo guitar actually sound interesting.

Yeh, love Lemmo's playing. But the rubbish sound on Norm's videos make them unwatchable for me. Just get a microphone already.

Yeah I like the overall vibe of them but a lav mic for the presenter and even a fairly basic condenser on the amp would be such an improvement. 

Despite the fact I fully understand what what you mean by a lav mic, it still conjours up ideas of "unpleasant sounds fron the toilet"

CasperCaster

Decorativeed said:

I've bought one of the Fender CuNiFe WRHBs second hand recently, and was a bit suspicious when it turned up and the pole pieces were slightly chewed up around the slots. I realised that someone could easily have bought the pickup and swapped the CuNiFe pole pieces for whatever the older reissue versions used then sold it on in the new pacakaging and there's no way for the buyer to tell unless they're a metallurgy expert. 

Given the older WRHB reissues are built much like a Gibson pickup, with plated plain steel (threaded) poles and a bar magnet placed under the coils to provide the magnetic 'engine' of the pickup, the seller couldn't have swapped out the pole pieces with those on your CuNiFe reissue, since the CuNiFe reissue has no magnet beneath - the threaded poles are the magnets. If they had swapped them then your pickup simply wouldn't work. They could have swapped them for other threaded magnetic pole pieces, such as FeCoCr,, but I'd say that's quite unlikely (suppliers like Axesrus do sell them though). Most likely someone was just a bit clumsy/ used the wrong tool to adjust them.

Decorativeed

CasperCaster said:

Decorativeed said:

I've bought one of the Fender CuNiFe WRHBs second hand recently, and was a bit suspicious when it turned up and the pole pieces were slightly chewed up around the slots. I realised that someone could easily have bought the pickup and swapped the CuNiFe pole pieces for whatever the older reissue versions used then sold it on in the new pacakaging and there's no way for the buyer to tell unless they're a metallurgy expert. 

Given the older WRHB reissues are built much like a Gibson pickup, with plated plain steel (threaded) poles and a bar magnet placed under the coils to provide the magnetic 'engine' of the pickup, the seller couldn't have swapped out the pole pieces with those on your CuNiFe reissue, since the CuNiFe reissue has no magnet beneath - the threaded poles are the magnets. If they had swapped them then your pickup simply wouldn't work. They could have swapped them for other threaded magnetic pole pieces, such as FeCoCr,, but I'd say that's quite unlikely (suppliers like Axesrus do sell them though). Most likely someone was just a bit clumsy/ used the wrong tool to adjust them.

Yeah, I was thinking the possibility was they replaced them with ones from a boutique brand that used the same design as the original pickups but had a different alloy for the magnetised pole pieces. Similar to the Creamery ones I've bought (albeit they have flattened tops rather than the domed ones Fender use). 

Eventually I realised that while that was possible, it was unlikely.