Rattly bloody valves

GavRichList

Well, it’s been a journey. I bought a 65 deluxe reverb reissue recently, and it’s had an auspicious start. Rectifier failed blowing a load of fuses. Rattly ass JJ 6V6s. No matter I thought; new valves can be bought. A matched pair of new JJs arrive. Still rattle. It can’t be those though, they’re new. Go through every last screw and bolt on the amp (of which there were many in need of tightening, boooo fender, booo) STILL rattle. I swear it sounds like the valves. Dampener rings ordered. Still rattles. Wits end. Order a set of TAD 6V6GT-STRs out of desperation / a bid to prove myself either right or mad. 

What would you know, rattle gone. Not only that, but these sound loads better to my ear too. More headroom, more clarity, more dynamic range. Just better. 

Are JJ Valves shite now? - Internet wisdom had them as the choice for a DRRI, but they won’t be going anywhere near mine again. Now for an awkward conversation with hotrox about returning the JJs. 

Moe_Zambeek

GavRichList said:

Now for an awkward conversation with hotrox about returning the JJs. 

Good luck with that!

ecc83

Moe_Zambeek said:

GavRichList said:

Now for an awkward conversation with hotrox about returning the JJs. 

Good luck with that!

Indeed, I have often wondered about this. The Distance Trading Regulations tell us that we can return mail ordered goods within two weeks WITHOUT GIVING ANY REASON. That would seem to indicate that so long as you get your finger out and test the valve in the amp, if you suspect they are not up to snuff you can get your money back, you don't have to prove a fault.

My main finding with 'modern' valves was that they were not 'burned in' long enough. Anode current would vary widely for the first day or so after setting bias volts. Pre amp valves either got quieter with a few hours use or a bloody sight worse!

Dave.

GavRichList

The TADs just seem a whole bunch better in every respect tbh. My argument will be that I’ve already bought their replacements from them. Even if I can argue my way to a credit note I’ll be satisfied - I suspect I’ll find it a tricky conversation. To my mind though, the JJs just weren’t fit for purpose. 

Moe_Zambeek

“ Amplifier parts that are perishable like Valves, Speakers and Components are non-returnable”

They’ll probably ‘test’ them, find them to be fine (after a couple of weeks) then try to sell you some damper rings. 

Could be wrong of course!

GavRichList

I bought the dampener rings from them too 

ecc83

Moe_Zambeek said:

“ Amplifier parts that are perishable like Valves, Speakers and Components are non-returnable”

They’ll probably ‘test’ them, find them to be fine (after a couple of weeks) then try to sell you some damper rings. 

Could be wrong of course!

They might try to claim valves are "components" and not covered by the regulations but they are in any case covered by a 90 day warranty. Speakers, i.e. drive units are different IMHO. I received an 8" bass unit a few months ago that had a rubbing voice coil. Packaging was ***t and it must have ahad a bump. Replaced nay bother.

Dave.

snowblind

Gotta say it sounds like a combination of the valve sockets and the pins on the valves. If the TAD pins are a little meatier than the JJs they might seat a bit better. Going to depend on which factory the tubes came out of originally. You might consider some new sockets, purely from a longevity perspective. Some of what comes out of Fender these days isn't entirely flawless shall we say. 

GavRichList

snowblind said:

Gotta say it sounds like a combination of the valve sockets and the pins on the valves. If the TAD pins are a little meatier than the JJs they might seat a bit better. Going to depend on which factory the tubes came out of originally. You might consider some new sockets, purely from a longevity perspective. Some of what comes out of Fender these days isn't entirely flawless shall we say. 

Any recommendations? 

impmann

Valves are currently a challenge from a quality perspective. There are only two factories on line right now that you can buy from (Russian valves are still available but…) with another just coming on line… but without any of their original staff.

Theres a lot of older stock still in the market (older than five years old) and there’s also a load of junk that should have been scrapped when it was rejected back to suppliers. But I doubt it was…

As for JJs… in general they are usually very good. However, I’ve been made aware of fake JJs that are being ‘created’ in China - I’ve only been aware of them existing within China but there’s no reason why they couldn’t be in the market. Especially if the reseller in the West hasn’t checked carefully enough on the origin.

Combos are a challenge for rattles at the best of times - and generally are the source of most of my grey hair these days, but valve quality is a very close second.

punchesjudy

Should’ve got a Bandit. 

GavRichList

Or a Victory, yeah? 

punchesjudy

No. Shite. 

ecc83

"Combos are a challenge for rattles at the best of times " Ha! It is pretty bloody silly engineering to put large, flimsy active devices in a box along with transducers that can subject them to over 130dB SPL of their OWN signal! I cannot think of any other amplifier/speaker system that does that except old valve radio sets and later record players but here the SPL capability was very limited. Indeed, even when you separate player, amp and speaker as in a hi fi system you can STILL end up with feedback.

A Bandit? Well, solid state will avoid 'miccy' feedback but does nothing to cure rattles!

Don't want to be a doom merchant but my feeling is that we are in the last decade of good, affordable (sort of!) valves?

Dave.

ElectricXII

@GavRichList ;Have you thought about re-tensioning the valve sockets? It would be a lot cheaper than replacing the sockets.

GavRichList

ElectricXII said:

@GavRichList ;Have you thought about re-tensioning the valve sockets? It would be a lot cheaper than replacing the sockets.

Don’t seem to have the need to now I’ve got the TAD red plate 6V6s. 

Teyeplayer

None of this would have happened with a Tonemaster Gav.

Maybe it was the valve rattle I missed when I had one… How long till Fender program that as part of the ‘tone’?

GavRichList

Teyeplayer said:

None of this would have happened with a Tonemaster Gav.

Maybe it was the valve rattle I missed when I had one… How long till Fender program that as part of the ‘tone’?

The couple of times I’ve played tonemasters I’ve thought they were a big ol’ pile of shite 

Teyeplayer

GavRichList said:

Teyeplayer said:

None of this would have happened with a Tonemaster Gav.

Maybe it was the valve rattle I missed when I had one… How long till Fender program that as part of the ‘tone’?

The couple of times I’ve played tonemasters I’ve thought they were a big ol’ pile of shite 

See, you missed the valve rattle.

ICBM

punchesjudy said:

Should’ve got a Bandit. 

I genuinely prefer my Studio Pro 112 with an Eminence L’il Texas to almost any valve amp I’ve owned. Nearly everyone who hears it comments on how great it sounds too.

If they made a version with dummy valves round the back I think it would fool a lot of people. And rattle as well .

snowblind

ecc83 said:

A Bandit? Well, solid state will avoid 'miccy' feedback but does nothing to cure rattles!

Solid state does not guarantee no microphonics. Less common for sure but right now I have an overdrive pedal which is all SMD and rings like a bell. Also had a Fender bassbreaker 18/30 wherein the singing was traced to one of the ceramic caps on the board. It was just a crappy solder joint but enough to give the amp its own set of unwanted backing vocals.