What are my options for this bridge?

lovestrat74

I have a Gretsch 2420 and wanted to upgrade the pinky tom bridge so I bought one of those aluminium Bigsby bridges, but it doesn't fit.

I just assumed it would be a straight drop in but I think the spacing on mine is 74mm with the bridge be 72mm. Anyway, it doesn't fit so I was thinking...

The posts on the rosewood bridge go through the base and sink into the body by a few mm to keep it in place.

I was thinking of either removing them - not sure how easy this will be as I assume they will be glued in - then plugging and redrilling new holes. Or cutting tops off and then just sinking some posts into the top of the bridge. Leaving the original bottom of the post to keep the bridge in place. Although I'm not sure this will work given the 2mm diff between the posts.

Another option is to get a new blank or rosewood bridge with the correct spacing but I don't know where I'd get one of those.

Any thoughts or options ive not mentioned?

Funkfingers

Buy a bridge of the correct dimensions. Sell or trade the Bigsby part.

Removing the 72mm-spaced pinnings and redrilling for 74mm is just going to leave you with stupidly wide holes that fail to grip the threaded metal.

stickyfiddle

Yep my first instinct is just to get a new wooden bridge base with the right dimensions. That should be pretty cheap and obviously super easy to install. You can always pin that later with extra holes inbound of the old ones. Noone will ever see it in future

BillDL

I've spent an hour looking at wooden archtop bridges, primarily ones with a tune-o-matic bridge, but also ones with a top wooden saddle that you might be able to remove from the posts and slide the other metal bridge on.  Almost every one of them has 74mm post spacings and match the Gotoh Tune-o-Matic dimensions, and of the odd one here and there that didn't, the oddball spacings were something like 73mm, 75.5. The ones that come with a wooden top "saddle" part that's been sculpted for intonation usually have thumbwheel rebates in the base and the separated feet with a void under the middle section of the base, which is less than ideal for your guitar.  Of the ones that have a solid base and no rebates for the thumbwheels and which would be a good shape and design, the websites (ie. Chinese vendors on eBay and Amazon) didn't give the post spacing dimensions or they were the common 74mm spacing. I have a few wooden archtop bridges with ABS and Nashville width Tune-o-Matics on them among my spares, but all of them are 74mm post spacing.

Do you have the means and patience to carve out a new base from a rosewood or ebony blank?  That way you could drill it for the posts where you need them and use long (usually M4) grub screws with the hex cup and, as long as the wood is hard enough, the screw will tap its own way through the holes and you can remove and secure them with epoxy to fix them at the right heights.  You could insert new locating studs (wood or metal "dowels") into the underside and bore new location holes in the guitar top a distance away from the existing ones.  If you have a Dremel with the small sanding drums you could quite easily create the curve profile in the ends because the existing one isn't particularly fancy.  To create a radius in the base to match the guitar top you stick sandpaper to the top with double sided tape then rub the bridge base back and forward in the location it will be sitting. Hardwood blanks can be bought in approximate sizes for something like £10 to £15 (ebony, rosewood, etc), but you could even use something hard like beech, dye it darker, and oil it.  Yeah, that's a bit of work, but not particularly technical or difficult.

lovestrat74

I will have to take an accurate measure tomorrow but I find it hard to believe there is not an off the shelf base to match this bridge ...

https://www.gluedtomusic.com/search/?q=Bigsby+bridge

ICBM

I would get a proper Gretsch type bridge if you need to replace it at all.

Something like this - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/145219751884

BillDL

https://www.reidtimber.co.uk/bridges-and-saddles/gretsch-style-stainless-steel-roller-bridge-with-ebony-base ; £27

https://www.reidtimber.co.uk/bridges-and-saddles/guyker-stainless-space-control-bridge ; £19

ICBM

BillDL said:

https://www.reidtimber.co.uk/bridges-and-saddles/gretsch-style-stainless-steel-roller-bridge-with-ebony-base

That looks like the same product but a much better price!

BillDL

I'm not sure whether there is a metric and imperial version of that Gretsch aluminium compensated bridge (manufacturer part number 0062691000) you bought or if it was made with imperial measurements in mind. I think it was intended to be imperial.  The stud / post spacing is 2 and 13/16ths of an inch i.e. 2.813 inches or 71.45mm, with a string spread of exactly 2 inches (50.8mm) i.e. string spacing 0.4 inches (10.16mm).

lovestrat74

BillDL said:

The I'm not sure whether there is a metric and imperial version of that Gretsch aluminium compensated bridge (manufacturer part number 0062691000) you bought or if it was made with imperial measurements in mind. I think it was intended to be imperial.  The stud / post spacing is 2 and 13/16ths of an inch i.e. 2.813 inches or 71.45mm, with a string spread of exactly 2 inches (50.8mm) i.e. string spacing 0.4 inches (10.16mm).

Nice one Bill, I couldn't find the dims online.

Definitely imperial so would slot straight onto a US Gretsch rosewood bridge base. Now, ideally that's what I need to hunt down and would hopefully be the cheapest option as I really want to try this aluminium bridge out.

Paging @GluedtoMusic - any ideas on the above? I didnt see a rosewood bridge on your website to accompany this:

https://www.gluedtomusic.com/search/?q=Bigsby+bridge

WezV

BillDL said:

https://www.reidtimber.co.uk/bridges-and-saddles/guyker-stainless-space-control-bridge ; £19

I got one of these from AliExpress recently.  It's no worse than the proper gretsch part, i was pleasantly surprised.

It's not really a proper roller bridge though. That feature is used for adjusting string spacing more than reducing friction, but it probably still helps a but as long as its not seized up.

BillDL

@lovestrat74.

There are wooden archtop bridges on the Glued To Music website.  Both good quality Hosco ones, one with "jazz" styled separate feet and a tune-o-matic bridge, and one with a full way across solid base that's radiused and with a compensated wooden saddle section, but they both have 74mm post spacing:

https://www.gluedtomusic.com/categories/bridges-tailpieces/?sort=featured&attribute=486&attribute=485

Those aren't cheap if your purpose was to cannibalise one for the base only, but if you look at the top of the base you will see that neither have a rebate for the thumb wheel.

Here's what I would probably do to save hours of trawling the internet for wooden bridges with 72mm post spacing.

I would find a fairly cheap (eg. £10 or £12) archtop guitar bridge with a base that's solid all the way across and without the rebates down into the top of the base for the thumb wheels - like THIS.  I would ditch the top section and use the base only.  I would remove the studs and plug the holes with hardwood dowels and epoxy (or better still fill them with this kind of fast-set "liquid metal" epoxy), and I think I MIGHT then be able to drill new holes for the posts alongside and partly into the plugged / filled holes without the holes breaking through into where the old ones were and creating ovals.  The epoxy I linked to sets hard, but can still be sanded and filed, so a machine screw would tap its own way into it if the hole was drilled to the right diameter.  Amazon and eBay are riddled with cheap wooden archtop bridges that are mostly sent directly from somewhere like Guangzhong and most of them don't specify post spacing dimensions.  I've bought some in the past for about £10 each with ebony and rosewood bases and they would be fine for your intended purpose.

I would have been happy to use one of my old spare wooden bridge bases to do what I mentioned above and post it to you, but the only ones I have have the "jazz" type separate feet that wouldn't be suitable for your guitar.

lovestrat74

While you typing one of your super helpful replies I was in the shed bastardising the existing rosewood bridge! 

Managed to remove one post and redrill it to fit the bridge. It's a bit of a temporary thing but I just wanted to hear the bridge. And it was worth it. It has made a big difference in tone and feel from the crappy abr1 bridge.

So, long term plan is to keep the bridge, fill it - will look into the stuff you mentioned above - and re-drill it for both holes. Oh, and then reinstate the Bigsby.

This is a great guitar, don't why I ever thought of selling it. A few tweaks makes a massive difference

BillDL

Good job.  It looks great, and glad it was worth it.

There's loads of different 2-part epoxy compounds that would do.  Probably the easiest to use is the kind that comes in a rectangular "cake" that has an outside shell like the marzipan on a Battenberg cake as the activator and the core as the other part, and you just slice off abit and roll it in your fingers until mixed thoroughly.  You could roll some mixed stuff into a very thin plasticine-like snake, dangle it down into the hole, then tamp it in with a matchstick while blocking the hole at the arse end to stop it pushing out.

The stuff I linked to dries shiny black and is unworkable in less than 5 minutes after mixing.  When filed or sanded it goes grey, but can polish back to black with T-Cut.  It's quite sticky to use - like treacle - but only immediately after mixing and before it starts curing.

Ordinary clear Araldite 2-part epoxy is pretty tough and any sticky smears can be wiped off with cheap meths (contains acetone-like stuff) while still sticky.  The slow drying stuff (Araldite Standard) dries a lot harder than the quick dry stuff (Araldite Rapid).

I hear people talking about JB Weld a lot these days but I haven't tried it.

Pack a bunch of very dark fine sawdust mixed with white wood glue down into the hole with something the right size and it will dry pretty hard.  If you have any old bits of ebony or rosewood from an old fretboard or bridge you could slice off a thick sliver going with the grain, put it in the chuck of a drill, and spin it slowly while using a bit of sandpaper wrapped around it to make a thin very strong dowel.

Do you get the sense I've spent my 45 years of guitar tinkering through improvising fixes? 

TheMarlin

lovestrat74 said:

While you typing one of your super helpful replies I was in the shed bastardising the existing rosewood bridge! 

Managed to remove one post and redrill it to fit the bridge. It's a bit of a temporary thing but I just wanted to hear the bridge. And it was worth it. It has made a big difference in tone and feel from the crappy abr1 bridge.

So, long term plan is to keep the bridge, fill it - will look into the stuff you mentioned above - and re-drill it for both holes. Oh, and then reinstate the Bigsby.

This is a great guitar, don't why I ever thought of selling it. A few tweaks makes a massive difference

Buying a new bridge base was a popular mod for a new bridge (Compton/Tru Arc) over at Gretsch Talk (before i was banned by Pro Trump moderator for a mostly inoffensive Trump joke). 

They would remove the bridge pins, and bin them. 

They would then would attach a sheet of sandpaper to the top of the guitar (rough side up) with masking tape, and gently sand the bridge base to match the base curve to top carve, to maximise contact area when in situ. 

Then lightly apply rosin (cello rosin was marginally preferred to violin rosin for some reason or other) to the bridge base. When new bridge was installed, the pressure from strings over the bridge, plus friction from rosin would mean the bridge would never move, even with Pete Townsend windmilling.  Also allowed for finer intonation adjustment with a fixed bridge  

As you’re changing/modding the bridge base, through this might be useful info. 

lovestrat74

TheMarlin 

Buying a new bridge base was a popular mod for a new bridge (Compton/Tru Arc) over at Gretsch Talk (before i was banned by Pro Trump moderator for a mostly inoffensive Trump joke). 

They would remove the bridge pins, and bin them. 

They would then would attach a sheet of sandpaper to the top of the guitar (rough side up) with masking tape, and gently sand the bridge base to match the base curve to top carve, to maximise contact area when in situ. 

Then lightly apply rosin (cello rosin was marginally preferred to violin rosin for some reason or other) to the bridge base. When new bridge was installed, the pressure from strings over the bridge, plus friction from rosin would mean the bridge would never move, even with Pete Townsend windmilling.  Also allowed for finer intonation adjustment with a fixed bridge  

As you’re changing/modding the bridge base, through this might be useful info. 

Wondered when you'd chime in Paul aka Mr Gretsch

Okay so I need to know a) where said rosewood bridges were purchased so I can get one. And b) the Trump joke that got you booted - think you'll be safe on here

BillDL

I can only assume you were comparing the colour of the Gretsch Chet Atkins with Trump's skin tone on Gretsch Talk?