Is this neck broken

Tall_martin

Is it possible to tell from photos?

https://richtonemusic.co.uk/esp-ltd-ec-1000-fishman-fluence-vintage-black-2nd-hand/

https://richtonemusic.co.uk/esp-ltd-ec-1000-fishman-fluence-vintage-black-2nd-hand/ ;

Disappointing, I don't need a new guitar and don't have any spare cash at the moment. This is pure curiosity.

Richtone seem a reputable shop and have been super helpful the couple of times I've been in. Seems unlikely they would sell something with a broken neck, or even a crack.

The photo of the back of the neck heel has a straightish line. I don't think that's where there should be a joint in the wood. 

Crack or not? 

Its a couple of hours round trip so I won't be finding out in person 

stickyfiddle

Looks like a repaired heel, which may also explain the relic job as an attempt to make that look less out of kilter with the rest of the instrument

ICBM

That’s had a break at the heel and been repaired. It may be perfectly sound now though, it looks like it’s gone back together pretty well.

I notice they don’t mention it specifically in the description though… not very good.

Was it originally a ‘relic’, or has that been done to draw less attention to it being sanded back where the repair is?

Edit - stickyfiddle got there first .

Tall_martin

Thanks for satisfying my curiosity.

How can you tell it's been repaired? Would the neck be hanging off if it hadn't been fixed?

Richtone never have much in the description, but they don't normally have multiple photos of a neck heel either.

ICBM

Tall_martin said:

How can you tell it's been repaired? Would the neck be hanging off if it hadn't been fixed?

Richtone never have much in the description, but they don't normally have multiple photos of a neck heel either.

Yes, if it hadn't been repaired there would be an obvious open crack. You can tell it's been glued and clamped, but not gone back together *quite* perfectly - they almost never do, because the wood fibres tear slightly internally and so don't fit back exactly together - so there's been a very slight 'step' in the finish, which has then been sanded smooth and gone through the colour coat.

My guess, like stickyfiddle said, is that rather than refinish - which can be tricky to get a good blend in, with a non-nitro finish - they've then exaggerated the sanding on the neck and relic'ed the rest in order to make the repair less obvious.

I agree they've photographed it properly so anyone who knows what they're looking at is under no illusions, but I do have an issue with not mentioning such a relatively major flaw explicitly... since some people genuinely wouldn't know, or may assume it's just a lacquer crack - I'm very sure it isn't. It does look like a good repair, but the problem is that you never quite know - it's difficult to get glue to penetrate all the way to the bottom of a crack where the two pieces haven't come apart completely, and this then leaves a weak point in the neck.

How much would that model normally sell for? I don't know if that's a heavily discounted price or not.

Offset

Regardless of the neck repair, that's a bloody awful relic job.  For that reason alone I wouldn't touch it :-)

aconitethrill

I’ve always found it slightly odd that Richtone don’t describe their second-hand stock at all.

Nice shop in person though - one of the few places that’s still quite exciting to visit.

ICBM

Hmmm... now I'm looking at it on a proper big screen and not my phone, I'm not so sure that it is a good repair. There appears to be a new crack on the right hand (bass) side of the neck, that runs through the sanded area.



I would want to see it up close in person. It's an even worse problem if it has been glued, but not well enough - getting it apart again cleanly to do the job properly is more difficult than repairing it.

BillDL

A couple of months ago I bought a new B-stock LP copy for about £40 that was described as having a headstock break.  It actually had a break through the neck under the 8th to 10th frets as well as the headstock dangling by the strings.  Too much hassle to send it back as "not as described" and it was an interesting project.  It's the first time I've used a hand chisel only to cut the rebates for the wooden splines / splints after gluing the breaks rather than a router, so it wasn't perfect and the splines went in below the surface of the neck. I infilled the sunken areas with black "steel" epoxy and sanded them back to flat, then sanded the rest of the neck to a satin finish.  I decided not to refinish the neck at all where the wood and the black (now grey) epoxy was, so the repairs stick out like a sore thumb visually, but the neck is super smooth and it plays really well.  It actually looks ten times better than what someone has done to that neck.  Even the sanding marks on the black lacquer at the heel are really obvious and the fact that the ragged edged lacquer at the cracks hasn't been sanded down to the wood tells me that the joint hasn't mated particularly well and/or been properly glued.  Other than the potential instability of the glued joint I think the neck will feel terrible to play where it's been sanded through to the wood along its whole length - either rough or it will feel or get to feel sticky.  I wouldn't buy that for £150 let alone £499, and the retailer should have specifically mentioned this in the description rather than the pro forma 2nd-hand blurb.

Tall_martin

I'm not so sure that it is a good repair.

Save me a trip then 

mankytom

How much would that model normally sell for? I don't know if that's a heavily discounted price or not.

I’d say they would look to move a perfect one for 700-800. No value in that at all. Looks like it’s had a very hard paper round.

Funkfingers

BillDL said:

I wouldn't buy that for £150 let alone £499

I would pay £150 for that ESP - approximately the used value of the Fishman Fluence pickups and controls. Any other salvageable hardware would be a bonus.

BillDL said:

the retailer should have specifically mentioned this in the description rather than the pro forma 2nd-hand blurb.

If the guitar were listed on eBay, the title and description ought to include the words Spares Or Repair.

Alex2678

They could do with at least a couple of lines of non- generic description on their second hand stuff 

Nerine

Given there’s a few pictures of this area of the guitar, it appears they know about it, but have neglected to mention it in the ad copy. 

Not very cool IMO. 

Funkfingers

Several well-known on-line music stores are equally bad. They give lengthy explanations of their pre-owned item condition rating system but little or no description.

BillDL

"May show some signs of having been previously used".

Esoterick

Funkfingers said:

Several well-known on-line music stores are equally bad. They give lengthy explanations of their pre-owned item condition rating system but little or no description.

I've sold 3 guitars to shops, 2 of them were listed without mentioning the dings I covered in photos and text when I approached them and the 3rd had a bad refinish job on it, which I discussed in person telling them Andertons had turned it down due to the paintwork. 

It got listed as in "great condition for its age with some mild wear"

When people say they prefer to buy second hand from shops, I hope they mean in person.

I'd suggest people be wary of shops that talk about how you can see hairline scratches in the paint if you hold it up to a light - seems strange to fuss about that but not mention small dents in the wood at all.

Catthan

can't be sure from the pics but for such a break, the FB binding looks ok?? that's interesting 

Funkfingers

The visible damage tallies with a severe impact rather than a full break. (Similar to the way that an impacted headstock develops the "smile" crack rather than detaching completely.) Thus, the repair involves placing just enough strain to widen the crack(s) sufficiently to get glue into the affected areas. Relax the strain to close the crack(s). Apply clamps.

EDIT
Just after I posted this, I received an eBay search notification. My search was for Fishman Fluence pickups. The notification was for the very ESP guitar in this Discussion. Spooky!

Mysteriously, the eBay price is £549. 

Tall_martin

I guess the £50 is eBay fees and they would see £500 after costs

Lawriejones1

I recently bought a 70s Mustang from Richtone. The bass had a seized truss rod so I sent it back for a full refund. Bass was advertised (and sold) immediately without mentioning this.

Its such a shame shops would act this way.