Best non-undersaddle pickup?

stickyfiddle

Having tried a bunch of stuff over the last couple of days in London I've realised that what I really should do is just stop worrying and put a pickup in my fancy guitar. It's a Bourgeois D18-alike

What's best if I don't want undersaddle/piezo style? I'm thinking K&K Pure Mini or perhaps something like the LR Baggs M80. Whatever I do I'll almost certainly use a pedal for preamp & tuner anyway, so I have no drive towards anything active unles it's head & shoulders above

wrinkleygit

I have a passive M80 and have been perfectly happy with it on my Martin, some say that it prevents the top from moving and detracts from the acoustic tone. I’ve used it for recording and the occasional gig and it’s worked well for me, although most of the time I only use the guitar at home now and have the pickup removed. Good luck in your quest.

TheBigDipper

I love the K&K Pure Mini and have one in three different acoustics. It's sounds very natural compared to undersaddle pickups or magnetic soundhole pickups, and it's passive, as you already know.  I use a K&K XLR Preamp with all of them and it sounds great, but the pickup is equally good with a FlyRig Acoustic pedal or plugged into a decent acoustic amp. It just needs to see a 1MOhm input socket. 

MartinB

The Schatten HFN also seems pretty nice, though I'm biased by having just fitted one. It gives you a little more wiggle room in fitting than a K&K or similar, since it uses double sided mounting tape or putty. So if the string balance or tone isn't right on the first attempt, it's easy to remove and tweak the position etc. Compared to the K&K it's not as high output, but can be nice and clear without the hyped low end.

BigLicks67

I have got a D28 with a K&K pure mini in it and recently did a comparison with a LR Baggs M1a. For me the K&K sounds better so if you are doing solo live gigs then I’d go with the K&K, however, if it’s for playing with a band at louder volume then the M80 would probably be the best option.
Incidentally, K&K do a jack for vintage guitars which works with a standard size strap pin, if you are concerned about drilling into your Bourgeois.

stickyfiddle

Cheers all. It’ll be mostly used for a duo - small gigs in bars, etc I think. 

Sounds like the K&K is still highly recommended so will look into that as first priority

Lewy

K&K all the way. The point about the 1 MOhm input is not to be overlooked, mind. Things can be a bit wooly without it.

stickyfiddle

Lewy said:

K&K all the way. The point about the 1 MOhm input is not to be overlooked, mind. Things can be a bit wooly without it.

Understood. My plan would be to get an outboard preamp that I would always use. Most likely either the K&K one or possibly a Fishman Aura, though I have a feeling I read the Fishman preamps are designed v much in the assumption you feed them a signal from a fishman pickup 

MartinB

The K&K preamps don't look or feel very premium and the feature set doesn't seem impressive, but they're surprisingly useful; very little noise, EQ in well chosen bands that's hard to mess up, long battery life etc.

Lewy

stickyfiddle said:

Lewy said:

K&K all the way. The point about the 1 MOhm input is not to be overlooked, mind. Things can be a bit wooly without it.

Understood. My plan would be to get an outboard preamp that I would always use. Most likely either the K&K one or possibly a Fishman Aura, though I have a feeling I read the Fishman preamps are designed v much in the assumption you feed them a signal from a fishman pickup 

I'd advise against an Aura with a K&K. It's less about them needing to see a Fishman pickup, more about them needing to see an undersaddle piezo. Adding Aura's IR based resonance to the natural resonance of the K&K can lead to some very honky and not very usable sounds. You'll find yourself turning the image way down the whole time, defeating the object. 

You would get better results with the later generations of IR based pedals that let you create your own IRs using a mic and whatever pickup you are using (expensive options: LR Baggs Voiceprint, Tonedexter   cheap option: Nux Optima Air)

All the K&K really needs preamp wise is the right impedance and decent TMB EQ. 

stickyfiddle

Lewy said:

stickyfiddle said:

Lewy said:

K&K all the way. The point about the 1 MOhm input is not to be overlooked, mind. Things can be a bit wooly without it.

Understood. My plan would be to get an outboard preamp that I would always use. Most likely either the K&K one or possibly a Fishman Aura, though I have a feeling I read the Fishman preamps are designed v much in the assumption you feed them a signal from a fishman pickup 

I'd advise against an Aura with a K&K. It's less about them needing to see a Fishman pickup, more about them needing to see an undersaddle piezo. Adding Aura's IR based resonance to the natural resonance of the K&K can lead to some very honky and not very usable sounds. You'll find yourself turning the image way down the whole time, defeating the object. 

You would get better results with the later generations of IR based pedals that let you create your own IRs using a mic and whatever pickup you are using (expensive options: LR Baggs Voiceprint, Tonedexter   cheap option: Nux Optima Air)

All the K&K really needs preamp wise is the right impedance and decent TMB EQ. 

Cheers - that's an excellent bit of guidance! 

I'm not at all famillar with IR pedals having been out of playing acoustics live for 10+ years now. Will do a google  

JCA2550

K&K Pure Mini, ideally with the matching preamp. That's what I have in my Atkin small jumbo and Bedell dread. Sounds excellent. 

ICBM

It's worth remembering that almost every Boss pedal, including the TU-2 and TU-3 tuners, has an input impedance of 1M and hence is ideal for plugging the K&K straight into. In fact, most other buffered pedals will have too - it's the default standard.

stickyfiddle

ICBM said:

It's worth remembering that almost every Boss pedal, including the TU-2 and TU-3 tuners, has an input impedance of 1M and hence is ideal for plugging the K&K straight into. In fact, most other buffered pedals will have too - it's the default standard.

All im hearing is “you need to plug the acoustic guitar into a Metal Zone”…

ToneControl

I have K+K pure minis, on one with a matching mic and the outboard mixer preamp

The EQ is inside, done with trimmers, you can tweak with a screwdriver

Definitely sounds ace with the preamp, but you can do as well inside an AF3 or FM9

ICBM

stickyfiddle said:

All im hearing is “you need to plug the acoustic guitar into a Metal Zone”…

Grant Lee Phillips got his distinctive sound with a Takamine 12-string - albeit with an added magnetic soundhole pickup - through a Metal Zone and into a Fender Twin.

Soupman

@ICBM said:
Grant Lee Phillips got his distinctive sound with a Takamine 12-string - albeit with an added magnetic soundhole pickup - through a Metal Zone and into a Fender Twin.

Perhaps that's why I've never heard of him? 

ICBM

Soupman said:

Perhaps that's why I've never heard of him? 

You probably should have a listen, he’s great. His band are (were) Grant Lee Buffalo.

The sound isn’t immediately obvious as an acoustic through a Metal Zone either, although it does make sense when you know .

BigLicks67

ICBM said:

Soupman said:

Perhaps that's why I've never heard of him? 

You probably should have a listen, he’s great. His band are (were) Grant Lee Buffalo.

The sound isn’t immediately obvious as an acoustic through a Metal Zone either, although it does make sense when you know .

I've got the America Snoring 12 inch EP tucked away somewhere.

menamestom

Has anybody tried the Baggs Hifi?  Similar concept to the K&K but with a built in preamp.

stickyfiddle

menamestom said:

Has anybody tried the Baggs Hifi?  Similar concept to the K&K but with a built in preamp.

I haven't but it certainly sounds good here. Given I can get this one where I live but the K&K is rare I may give it a try, purely out of simplicity.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8xWcTfcsSs