Going straight into the PA if my amp dies, how to?

Grunfeld

EricTheWeary said:

The search for the perfect back up amp is a recurring theme on here, gap in the market for somebody...

Too right. 

It mainly needs to be small and bullet proof.  And clean headroom (because we'll have enough dirt pedals to get us by if we're in a pickle).

If you were an amp maker, you'd clean up with that.  The micro terror is a case in point.  You can pack it to every gig cos it's small.  But it hasn't got the clean headroom and it feels a bit frail tbh. 

ICBM

If Blackstar made the power section from the ID60 in the smallest possible box with simple preamp controls and the TVP modelling so you could approximate your main amp, it would be ideal. The ID power module appears to be near enough bombproof, and is as loud and dynamic as a fairly decent valve amp (although it's a bit impedance-dependent). I don't know how cheap it would be, but the full amp is under £400, so presumably a fair bit less.

p90fool

close2u;400702" said:

I use a Zoom G3X for all my fx.

I know it is a backup.

I have only had to do this once at a rehearsal when I somehow forgot the kettle lead for my amp.

It works a treat.

But I did have to ensure every saved 'patch' had an amp sim stored and then was on to make it work.

A few minutes of fiddling did the trick.

Not ideal mid-gig I suppose.

But workable.

This is why everyone should rehearse their backup scenario, whatever it is.

John_A

ICBM said:

If Blackstar made the power section from the ID60 in the smallest possible box with simple preamp controls and the TVP modelling so you could approximate your main amp, it would be ideal. The ID power module appears to be near enough bombproof, and is as loud and dynamic as a fairly decent valve amp (although it's a bit impedance-dependent). I don't know how cheap it would be, but the full amp is under £400, so presumably a fair bit less.

I'd buy one. It's definitely a gap in the market, and the power amp modelling would be a great idea

DannyP

Can I ask a practical question about hooking this stuff up?

When "plugging into the desk" do you guys have a mono-jack to male XLR lead for that? Things like the AC Tone and the Pod just have jack outputs, but multicores going out to the desk tend to have XLR inputs.

They don't have mono-jack to male XLR leads on Thomann, and they don't seem to be a commonly produced cable.

If my amp goes tits at a gig, I'd need to go into the multicore, replacing the XLR from my amp mic with the lead from whichever amp sim I'm using. What do you guys do?

Edit: If the answer is "use a DI box", doesn't that cancel out the idea of a "one box solution"?

ICBM

You can't really plug an unbalanced signal directly into an XLR socket even with a converter cable - the signal level and impedance are wrong and at best it will sound awful, even if it doesn't cause major hum and/or distortion. (That's why the cables are rare, since they have no normal use.)

You need a DI box. Most venues and sound engineers have them, but if it's part of your backup strategy it isn't a bad idea to have your own - saves time and avoids the possibility that the venue's are all in use already. A cheap passive (transformer-balanced) one is fine, in fact in my experience they tend to sound better for electric guitar than 'better' active ones do.

You can get them combined with a speaker emulator in one unit, eg the Hughes & Kettner Red Box (which is active, but also sounds good) or the Peavey EDI (passive).

DannyP

Thanks ICBM, my edit there at the end about DI boxes was done before your post - so that wasn't in response to what you were saying!

Considering I could get a rebadged Joyo AC Tone PLUS a passive DI box from Thomann for under £40, I can't really moan at that.

Danny1969

It depends what your plugging in, a Pod for example doesn't need a DI box as it's line level already, some pedals might but almost nothing will be as high Z as a guitar unless your sticking the guitar straight into the desk, which you can so with a digital desk. We use Amplitude in one band and the mixing desk and laptop provide the amp sounds. 

A "mono" jack into an XLR will work fine, it will just be unbalanced so noisier if the cale run is massive.  A stereo (balanced) jack will either work as unbalanced if the piece of kit your using shorts pin 1 to 3 or it will work as balanced if your kits output is wired as balanced. Whichever, it will work

In short most things like Pods, Tonelabs, the output of a phone or iPod running Amplitude will work fine plugged straight into a line input on the desk. Hearing yourself with no wedge or IEM is an issue but in an emergancy you could probably get by just playing by braille. 

Fortheloveofguitar

ICBM;400262" said:

Johnnyseven said:

Get a Crate Power Block, small and cheap amp head that can be used as a DI too - I think.





No, don't get one. They sound dreadful and are unreliable.

+1

I've had 2 die on me.

close2u

Zoom G3 ... again ... has balanced XLR output

photek

This is my backup amp head:

http://www.taurus-amp.pl/guitar/stomp-head/classic/sh-1-bl.html




Taurus Stomphead 50w SS jobbie. Sounds blooming brilliant even though all of the vids online are of metal players it does a lovely chimey clean and ACDC type crunch on the clean channel plus a really very nice mid heavy lead tone on the drive channel. I just use the clean channel with my pedalboard so nothing changes as far as how I get through the gig.

Takes me seconds to swap as it uses the same power lead and speaker lead as my main amp.

This is a brilliant sounding box, In the past I had a Crate Powerblock which broke, an EHX 22 that wasn't loud enough and even a Laney LC30 as a spare amp. The Taurus is considerably better than all of them.

John_A

^ damn something else on the wanted list!

hotpickups

I bought a Joyo American for exactly this scenario. Thankfully I haven't had to use it yet but it's certainly good enough to get you through a gig

Jalapeno

ZT lunchbox, now my b/u.  A ZT Club if you really wanted an FX loop

I know this is heresy to ICBM, but ex:Kit pedal Kev (where is he?) Marshall MG100HD sounded great (pedals into clean channel + fx loop) - I'd consider a Valvestate or other Marshall S/S head for backup again.

ICBM

Jalapeno said:

I know this is heresy to ICBM, but ex:Kit pedal Kev (where is he?) Marshall MG100HD sounded great (pedals into clean channel + fx loop) - I'd consider a Valvestate or other Marshall S/S head for backup again.

Not heresy! I even like the sound of the MG100HDFX, I just don't like their extreme tendency to stop working.

If you want one, the earlier MG100 or the newer MG100FX are fine - I've never seen a single dead one of either. They're very easy to tell apart even if you don't know the details of the controls etc - look on the back. If it has a cooling fan, avoid it - this applies to all Marshalls, in fact… and eliminates the AVTs for the same reason.

Kebabkid

I must say the Joyo amp pedals and Tech 21 Fly Rig sound good and I need to try the Joyo ones.

My backup is a Roland Microcube and I take line-out from it to the PA - the speaker is automatically disabled. I use it on the Blackface setting with my pedalboard going into it but I normally have it set up anyway at functions as I use the Microcube as my acoustic preamp to the PA and it works really well. I've yet to use the Red Box function on my H&K TM36 bu I need to try that sometime.

Jalapeno

ICBM said:

Jalapeno said:

I know this is heresy to ICBM, but ex:Kit pedal Kev (where is he?) Marshall MG100HD sounded great (pedals into clean channel + fx loop) - I'd consider a Valvestate or other Marshall S/S head for backup again.

Not heresy! I even like the sound of the MG100HDFX, I just don't like their extreme tendency to stop working.

Just some reliability rant bait

You mean the new "Carbon" ones with the silver panel (MG100HCFX) are the ones to go for ?

57Deluxe

Many of the Digitech X series have direct line outs

ThePrettyDamned

photek;401522" said:

This is my backup amp head:



http://www.taurus-amp.pl/guitar/stomp-head/classic/sh-1-bl.html









Taurus Stomphead 50w SS jobbie. Sounds blooming brilliant even though all of the vids online are of metal players it does a lovely chimey clean and ACDC type crunch on the clean channel plus a really very nice mid heavy lead tone on the drive channel. I just use the clean channel with my pedalboard so nothing changes as far as how I get through the gig.



Takes me seconds to swap as it uses the same power lead and speaker lead as my main amp.



This is a brilliant sounding box, In the past I had a Crate Powerblock which broke, an EHX 22 that wasn't loud enough and even a Laney LC30 as a spare amp. The Taurus is considerably better than all of them.

Nice, never seen one of those!

ICBM

Jalapeno said:

You mean the new "Carbon" ones with the silver panel (MG100HCFX) are the ones to go for ?

They seem to be. They've been out for years now, and I still haven't seen a single dead one.

I suspect the reason for the lack of failures is that Marshall went back to a proper discrete-transistor power amp, without fan cooling (which they actually mentioned in their ad copy originally) - I expect their warranty department had something to say about the previous design! They've dropped the AVTs now too - which is in some ways a shame, because they now don't have a 'better hybrid' series - but they must also have cost the company a fortune in repairs.

Just don't even think about a Mode Four. Four AVTs in the same box…