JCM800 (4010) V Silver Jubilee (2554)

Fatfingers

Friday afternoon thought noodling. I have a JCM 800 combo. It sounds ace cranked with an Air Brake to tame its incredibly loud output. With my 73 Les Paul plugged in, gain on 4, MV on 10, it's killer.

However, it would be great to have a foot switchable boost. Nothing too wild, just a little kick for solos. I was doing some eBay trawling and came across a Silver Jubilee combo (2554). It appears to have this very feature.

So - does anyone know how the basic tone compares with my 800? Is it basically the same thing with (more) knobs on?

chrishill901

The 'boost' is funny on the Silver Jubilee - for example I have the input gain set to 6.5 which on the lead channel gives me a great lead tone, but on the rhythm channel is just about clean. The only way to use the channel switching as a 'boost' is to pull the rhythm clip on the rhythm channel which introduces diodes to the gain stage which to me gives your rhythm tone a thin and shrill overdrive. It isnt unpleasant, but the overdrive from then lead channel is far superior. It entirely depends on your usage.

Having owned both, although years apart, I find the Silver Jubilee to be a lot smoother and a lot less raw - the JCM was always just about ready to rip your face off because you called its mum a slut, but the silver jubilee handles the same gain in a calmer, smoother and to me, more refined and pleasant way. Horses for courses obviously...

Does your 800 have a loop? A boost in the loop will achieve what you want without the need for a new amp!

Fatfingers

Thanks. Nice description of the 800's tone! It doesn't have a loop, no. But I could add one. What do you mean a boost in the loop? A boost pedal?

hubobulous

A volume boost in the loop is exactly what I would suggest. Way cheaper, you get to keep an amp you like and gives you what you're after.

A clean/mid boost in front of the amp could also be an option. More saturation, so whilst not louder, can push you in the mix to appear like a volume bump has occurred.

chrishill901

Yeah I use an Eq in the loop with a slight boost to the mid frequencies and an overall level boost which gives me a volume jump. It doesn't have to be an Eq though, I used to use a ehx line booster, the £29 jobs. Did the trick nicely but the switch on it liked to make a loud pop!

koneguitarist

I used to use the JCM 800 and found it incredibly versatile and responsive with various guitars. I never felt the silver jubilee was as good, decent amp, but it always felt a compromise.

ICBM

Fatfingers said:

So - does anyone know how the basic tone compares with my 800? Is it basically the same thing with (more) knobs on?

No, it's a completely different amp. They both sound 'Marshally', but that's about where it ends.

koneguitarist said:

I used to use the JCM 800 and found it incredibly versatile and responsive with various guitars. I never felt the silver jubilee was as good, decent amp, but it always felt a compromise.

Same here. I think the 800 is a more open, dynamic and responsive amp. The Jubilee is more controlled and actually thinner-sounding - I don't understand the reputation they have for being 'dark' at all, they're still bright but lack the fullness of the 800.

If it matters, the Jubilee uses solid-state diode clipping on all bar the clean mode, whereas the 800 is all-valve. The Jubilee also doesn't have the classic Marshall cathode-follower tone stack. In my opinion both these things contribute to the difference.

I'm not opposed to solid-state at all (quite the opposite), so if you're considering a Jubilee to get a switchable boost, in my opinion you may as well use an overdrive/distortion pedal in front of the 800. Things like the Boss SD-1 will give you a substantial volume boost as well as more dirt, even when the amp is overdriven.

Flanging_Fred

I have a JCM 800 4010 and one trick I do is to use an EHX LPB1 booster in front, but instead of using it to boost volume, use it to cut volume. Set the amp to your loudest solo setting, then switch the 'boost' on to bring it down to normal rhythm volume. Something like the HBE detox EQ would be even better than a LPB1 for this.

Or just stick an sd1 in front as @ICBM said.

matt1973

I've owned a 4210 and a 2555, albeit at different times. I thought they sounded very alike.

ICBM

matt1973 said:

I've owned a 4210 and a 2555, albeit at different times. I thought they sounded very alike.

That's because the 4210 is a channel switcher with solid-state diode clipping and (apart from the very first 1982-84 version) no cathode follower, like the Jubilee.

The 4010 is a different beast entirely - single-channel, all-valve, essentially a 2204 Master Volume head in a combo box.

For what it's worth even the versions of the 4210 sound quite different - the earlier one is much chunkier and less buzzy, although it has less gain. I owned two of them, first the original, then one of the later ones - at first I couldn't work out why the new one never sounded remotely as good, until I found out that the circuit was totally different! (There are actually two versions of the later circuit as well, although they're much more similar.)

matt1973

Ahh didn't realise it was the shit-kicker Jcm800. That'll be why.

Fatfingers

Mine's an earlier one with what the Marshall cognoscenti refer to as 'vertical inputs.' In other words, the two input jacks are one above each other, rather than next to each other, as on later models. As far as I was aware, this simply means that the input jacks and control pots are hard wired to the circuit board, rather than mounted directly on it. I thought the circuit was electrically identical though - certainly as far as the 50 watt versions went.

matt1973

No they're a bit different as I understand. The later ones had diode clipping to make them more usable at lower volume (as with the Jube), they had an fx loop added too. Earlier ones didn't but are generally held in greater regard than the latter models. 

They both have a great tone IMO. The early one is certainly the choice of the two if you're playing areas regularly but, for pub & clubs, Id take the later version.

If you just after a solo boost why don't you drop the preamp down, lift the master (or attenuate less) and use a boost pedal. Should do the job fine. 

ICBM

matt1973 said:

No they're a bit different as I understand. The later ones had diode clipping to make them more usable at lower volume (as with the Jube), they had an fx loop added too. Earlier ones didn't but are generally held in greater regard than the latter models.

No, all 4010s are plain all-valve Master Volume models and none have diode clipping or FX loops. I think Fatfingers is right that the 50-watters did not change circuit between the vertical and horizontal input, but I'd have to have a close look at the schematics (if there is any difference it will be small and in the power supply). The 100-watters did change, fairly substantially and again mostly in the power supply.

All 4210s have an FX loop and diode clipping, it's just that the earliest ones are a rather different circuit, with a different topology, less gain and a cathode-follower - though driving the clipping network not the tone stack - and also the overall MV is post-phase-inverter on the early ones. The differences between the first and later versions are so substantial that it's really a completely different amp that happens to share the same chassis and control layout!

matt1973

I see, my bad, I thought we were talking 4010 vs 4210...

Fatfingers

Thanks ICBM. I didn't realise the 4210 was so significantly different, although I'd heard they don't sound as good, and this explains why.