Monitor mixes

RocknRollDave

Jalapeno said:

RocknRollDave said:

Jalapeno said:

After a good practice, but shabby comments about my backing vocals, finally taken control of my vocal mix - Samson S-Monitor on order

I use a very cheap-and-cheerful Behringer thingy not dissimilar to the Samson (though no doubt not as good) and the difference when it comes to backing vocals is night and day for me.

Ta, reassuring. Though I doubt a £40 Samson unit is any better than something from Behringer.

The Behringer one was less than £20, so you should be ok! On our NYE gig I'd forgotten my earbuds, so a bandmate let me borrow his fancy-pants Shure ones and it sounded great, FWIW.

Jalapeno

I may have pushed the boat out on a new set of earbuds too

ICBM

D28boy said:

Well ICBM...you pushed me into it...Sat morning had me with screwdriver in hand taking the two cabs apart. Once I got over the apprehension and removed the first speaker I realised it was actually a simple job. After I finished I tested the 1936 cab ...and it still worked . Result. Then I finished off the 1960 cab and tested that which also worked ...result. Then I had quite a long play with the new set up as loud as I could in the house and it really does sound better. Can't wait to try it out at our next gig. The strange thing is though when I practiced yesterday with the 1936 cab I'll swear that sounded better too. Explain that if you can? Possibly that the cab was designed for the G12's  in the first place? Another thing I also found out is that the 1936 isn't pine which is rather disappointing especially when you look at the price of the new ones with V fitted which is around £500 !

Excellent!

Yes, I think the 1936 could quite possibly sound better with the G12T-75s. I'm not a big fan of that cabinet anyway - especially not the MDF ones, they have now returned to being ply - but those speakers do seem to work quite well in it. And yes, they are now ridiculously expensive…

Speakers and cabinets can be a tricky thing, and sometimes the only way to find out what works and what doesn't is trial and error. I haven't personally tried a 1936 with V30s, but I've read other reports that they don't sound any better, and possibly worse, than the standard 75 version too.

I wasn't even sure about the V30/75 combination in a 4x12 until I heard it - I thought it might be the worst of both worlds, particularly as there is a sensitivity mismatch too... the V30 (which already sounds louder due to being more middy) is 3dB more efficient as well, and I thought it might sound unbalanced. No - it works perfectly, each speaker seems to balance out the characteristics of the other one very nicely and you hear both of them well.

Emp_Fab

Well, I've just bought a Xenix 802 small mixer and I'm about to order some Shure SE215 IEMs (along with the bassist and other guitarist).  I've never used IEMs before, but every site I'm reading about them recommends the use of a limiter to prevent transients from damaging your ears.  Does anyone here use a limiter ?  I can't afford to spend any more at the mo, and I was wondering if an old compressor pedal I've got spare might half-work instead ?

Danny1969

The 215's cut down the ambient level by quite a whack so there shouldn't be any need to have a loud level in them to begin with. I have a simple diode clamping system in mine which will distort the level rather than allow it to get louder plus the aux sends on our digital desks have compressors and 31 band EQ on them, but there's never any need to have anything loud in the IEM's 

Your probable find your need a couple of ambience mics setup if your drums aren't mic'ed as your find everything including the drums behind you goes very quiet once you got them in your ears

bossarb

Danny1969 said:

If I'm mixing front of house then I want enough control to be able to mix and if the stage level of the amps is too loud then that control is taking away and any mix I do is compromised, I either have to mix everything else at a higher level to defeat the problem which generally results in too high an overall volume or just accept it. In some forms of music the players can control their own volume to a small extent but in high gain material rolling back on the volume or not playing so hard will only result in less gain, not less volume. 

Some bands and engineers do use too low a backline level and that generally means the ratio of drum spill to wanted guitar signal will be too high ......... turning up the mic'ed guitar in the PA in this instance will actually increase the level of the drums as well, especially if the cabs near the drums and it's the normal 57 mic

Have a Wisdom from an ageing sound engineer who has spent too many miserable nights mixing bands that are so loud or unbalanced on stage that it is impossible to get a good mix out front at an ACCEPTABLE volume level for the venue. Note that if you have a decent PA and you are prepared to run it at near-Motorhead volume levels then it doesn't really matter how loud the amps or drummer are on stage. But if you are trying to get a good balanced mix at a volume level that is going to be OK for a wedding or corporate function or pub then you are completely screwed if you have a guitarist or bassist or drummer that decides that they are at the O2 and turns up to 11 or hits the skins like John Bonham. 

Too low a backline volume is almost unknown, frankly. The trickier the acoustics of the venue the less you want of stage volume. That's why in some theatres and churches they even put the guitar amps in another room (with a mic obviously!) and have the whole band on IEMs with their own little Aviom personal monitor mixers (or equivalent). 

The other thing that I would think is obvious but perhaps not so much is that you really can't tell from stage how good the mix is at FOH, except perhaps from the pained or happy expressions of the punters. You really need to get yourself a decent FOH person if you can. Mixing from stage is a fool's game although I have seen it done OK when a band plays similar material all night and the musicians are disciplined about not adjusting their amp levels etc too much. Even then you can get bitten by boring accidents like different keyboard voices being at very different volume levels. 

I won't moan on any more. +1 to Danny1969 anyway.