Tom Petty & Royalties for Sam Smith Song

Philly_Q

If it was a deliberate rip-off, it was pretty naïve of them - Tom Petty may very well be unknown to much of Sam Smith's audience, but he's hardly obscure.

Maynehead

When writing songs sometimes you think you're writing something original but in fact you are just subconsciously remembering a riff/chord progression from a song that you've heard before.

I'm surprised no one spotted the similarities before it was released though.

Reverend

Metallica got away with a couple of times.

Maynehead

Reverend said:

Metallica got away with a couple of times.

(GASP) Someone said something bad about Metallica.... I must rebuke him!

ORLY! So which specific times did they "get away" with it if you would be so kind as to elaborate?

Fretwired

A sensible attitude to this sort of thing from Ian Anderson ..

BloodEagle

I think Tom Petty might also like to have a word with The Strokes re: American Girl (coincidentally the second time this vid has been posted today)



For this..



and this..

ICBM

The only problem with the Tull/Eagles one is that Don Felder wrote the music for Hotel California, and he wasn't even in the band at the time they toured with Tull, so it's difficult to see how he could have copied it.

I do agree with the idea that a similar simple chord sequence and a straightforward melody that follows it can be written independently, but the Sam Smith/Tom Petty one is so close on not only that but also the phrasing of the vocal line and the ad-lib vocal bit with the slide guitar part, that I just find it very hard to believe that much correlation could be a coincidence.

I suspect Sam Smith's lawyers have told him that a court won't believe so either, even if it was really an unconscious copy.

chrisj1602

Tom Petty's Learning to Fly and Foo Fighters' Wheels are a bit close too!

Maynehead

chrisj1602 said:

Tom Petty's Learning to Fly and Foo Fighters' Wheels are a bit close too!

That's ok, they're mates. Grohl even played drums for them for a while.

Fretwired

ICBM said:

The only problem with the Tull/Eagles one is that Don Felder wrote the music for Hotel California, and he wasn't even in the band at the time they toured with Tull, so it's difficult to see how he could have copied it.

In fairness the Tull song was played endlessly on the radio so he could have heard it but to my mind Anderson takes a more philosophical view although I do agree he could have written it independently. American girl is a pretty simple song so I could see how someone could come up with something similar. I guess Petty has a big ass lawyer. Better to pay up than get beaten to a pulp in court.

Reverend

Maynehead;496388" said:

Reverend said:

Metallica got away with a couple of times.





(GASP) Someone said something bad about Metallica.... I must rebuke him!

ORLY! So which specific times did they "get away" with it if you would be so kind as to elaborate?

Sanitarium is based on Rainbow Warrior by Bleak House.
Orion mid section is a rewrite of Handy by Wishbone Ash.
Bells is based on the riff from Angel Of Death by Angel Witch.
Motorbreath uses a riff from Rapid Fire.

redrighthand

What about One Direction

imalone

richardhomer said:

I must admit the Sam Smith song had a familiarity about it - but is so stylistically removed from Tom Petty that I hadn't made the association.

I suspect much like the 'My Sweet Lord'/'He's So Fine' lawsuit against George Harrison, it probably is just an unfortunate co-incidence. Harrison could have chosen to plagiarise a significantly better song had he been looking for inspiration.

I don't mind Sam Smith at all - and I love Tom Petty's stuff.

With Harrison the finding was that he had 'subconsciously' copied it, on the basis he had heard it previously. (Skating over the fact they're not incredibly close, I like that 120 and 145 bpm are described as 'similar').

On a Beatles tack though, heard Paul Weller's 'Changing Man' for the first time recently. My first thought was 'Dear Prudence' although it turns out to be an indirect copy, via an ELO track that copies Dear Prudence.
From this

To this

To then

The odd thing is 10538 Overture never really made me think of the Beatles song, but the Weller one does.

Jez6345789

I feel the LED Zeppelin rip off up next

Reverend

Jez6345789;496958" said:

I feel the LED Zeppelin rip off up next

you'll have to narrow it down a bit.

xSkarloey

I'm prepared to give both of them the benefit of the doubt on this one. 

Smith's people have (correctly in my view) decided to cut their losses and prevent a lengthy and costly court case. Petty's people are protecting his copyright. 

This case strikes me as very similar to the Joe Satriani/ Coldplay spat of a few years ago. 

The thing is, I don't think in either case it's deliberate (in the sense of conscious) plagiarism. It think in the Coldplay case they sailed to close to the wind because the songs share a similar chord progression which suggests a similar melody. There are grey areas too. That Aphrodite's Child track The Four Horsemen was 'referenced' quite heavily in the Verve album track off Urban Hymns, "The Rolling People", but that strikes me as being a quite knowing homage. I don't know if that resulted in court action. And last point from me: let's not forget that Petty has copped most of his moves (especially early on) from his heroes. I'm not accusing him of direct plagiarism, but his mannerisms, voice and gear were all heavily influenced by Roger McGuinn early on. In fact there's an alleged anecdote about McGuinn when he heard Petty's American Girl on the radio for the first time. McGuinn had to pull his car over, because for the life of him he could never actually remember recording that song... True or not I don't know, I only heard it from others, but it could be true.

Philly_Q

Nobody mentioned the case between Ray Parker Jr and Huey Lewis and the News over the Ghostbusters theme?

lustycourtier

The coldplay one was slightly different, as the guitarist claimed to have never heard of Satch, but then evidence was brought of an interview of him talking about satch from a few years earlier, from memory.

RocknRollDave

I agree that the Coldplay one was coincidental, and as if Coldplay model themselves on Joe Satriani?!

And why would Coldplay lie anyway? When I first heard Coldplay's "Talk" I went "Bloody hell! They've ripped that off Kraftwerk's "Computer Love"!"*...then I checked the credits of the album and lo and behold they had credited Kraftwerk with a co-write. Why wouldn't they do that again?




(*I only know that as it was the b-side of The Model - first single I ever bought!)

xSkarloey

That's the only Coldplay song I can half stand, that one quoting Kraftwerk.
Mind you that's only because it quotes them.

Turns out part of the motif from K/Work's Tour de France quotes Hindemith's Duet fir Flute and Piano. So there you go....