Is there a bass guitar YouTube equivalent for Ola/Keith Merrow etc? Eventual NGD, + clip (finally)

guitarfishbay

PolarityMan said:

I have a pretty cheap crack converter bass, but the thing i most struggle with is in the box VST bass sounds. Even with my cheap guitars i can get a halfway decent guitar tone but i jsut seem to have an inability to dial in bass tones.

anyone got any starters?

What kind of tone, metal?

IMO a lot of problems stem from incorrect strings and setup.

If you're trying to get aggressive grindy tones your best bet is to get some brand new strings (I like Pro Steels), and play quite hard.  Also IMO a little bit of fret clank/buzz actually helps if you're trying to get tones with some grit.  I was really surprised at how much fret buzz was going on in some tones I liked... this has been quite a recent discovery for me if I'm honest.

Here are two Pantera Bass tracks

I'm Broken

Walk

And here's a Lamb of God one.. so much editing if this is real.  Also there's probably a sampled bass going on in the section from 2:10 for the high notes.

Slipknot - Left Behind bass only

As for processing this is a good tutorial.

Drew_TNBD

PolarityMan said:

I have a pretty cheap crack converter bass, but the thing i most struggle with is in the box VST bass sounds. Even with my cheap guitars i can get a halfway decent guitar tone but i jsut seem to have an inability to dial in bass tones.

anyone got any starters?

Get some outboard. Plugins are crap for bass I think.

guitarfishbay

Owl vs Cow!

No I'm not keeping both, and no I didn't use distance sellers to buy both then send one back...

I mail ordered the Sandberg on spec.  On paper that should be everything I want, minus the aged finish - but due to limited availability that was the best of the bunch and it honestly doesn't bother me in the flesh, looks convincing if a little overdone on the top horn on the side IMO.  8.9lb, noiseless pickups, active/passive option, rosewood board.

And I was 'whelmed'.  Not under, or over, just 'meh'.  The neck pickup again sounds great, but the in between and bridge only pickups weren't giving me a bass boner despite sounding fairly good (and they're more what I'm interested in).  The most worrying thing though was it just felt like it was missing a bit of bollocks acoustically.  Despite fresh steel strings and a great setup (even out of the box it had a nice low action, IIRC they have a plek machine) it just feels like there isn't any real power in the instrument itself, like the body is a bit dead/dull on it.  This really bugged me - at this price I've got to be happy with everything and despite wanting to like it I just was not convinced.

So I went on a trip yesterday afternoon to look at a rosewood board, white with tort US J that I almost bought, taking the Sandberg to A/B so that I could either put my mind at ease, or buy that US J and return the Sandberg.  I had photographed the serial number so knew it was the same one, and when I got there it was tuned in drop D and the strings still felt fresh - I reckon nobody else had played it since I tried it.

...And of course I came back with a black 8.8lb US J with a maple board that despite the maple board, and being black (not my favourite finish) was on gut instinct just clearly the right instrument.

This bass has bollocks.  Dig in and notes just punch right out of it.  The strings are a little played in - not dead, but not even totally fresh... it just responds the way I want when I pick hard, sounds good acoustically, and I like the pickups (as I've liked pretty much all the US Jazz basses I've tried).  The neck feels great and the fret ends are very nice and smooth.

I guess this just totally confirms that I'm the kind of picky bugger that absolutely has to try stuff out first.  I've not even fitted steel strings to this Fender yet but I played it all last night and it is just awesome.

The Sandberg sounds good, but just doesn't have 'it' as an instrument which at the price I just can't live with.  Other than the neck pickup which is better soloed on the Sandberg (ballsy and well balanced) I think the bridge pickup on the Fender growls better and the middle position has a more pleasing 'scoop' which sounds exactly what I've been looking for.  I can't find any issues on it and gut instinct says this is the one.  Clips will follow as songs are finished/material gets released.

Also, I was in the queue next to Gem Archer and didn't recognize him until he left and the salesman told me who it was.

Dave_Mc

Sweet scores

guitarfishbay

Lol. Sandberg is being collected on Tuesday to go back. I'm away until Monday night now... I want to play my Fender!

guitarfishbay

Had a couple of minutes to play last night when I got in.  Love it.

Back on to the discussion about bass tones check this In Flames no rhythm guitars mix out -

The track with guitars sounds like this

I mean it is obvious listening to the full track, but that must be one of the most mangled up bass tones I've heard that sounds awesome in the mix.  It sounds like a massive engine recorded in slow motion.

fretmeister

Drew_fx said:

PolarityMan said:

I have a pretty cheap crack converter bass, but the thing i most struggle with is in the box VST bass sounds. Even with my cheap guitars i can get a halfway decent guitar tone but i jsut seem to have an inability to dial in bass tones.

anyone got any starters?

Get some outboard. Plugins are crap for bass I think.

The Ampeg SVX plugin was brilliant. But the twats discontinued it.

guitarfishbay

fretmeister said:

Drew_fx said:

PolarityMan said:

I have a pretty cheap crack converter bass, but the thing i most struggle with is in the box VST bass sounds. Even with my cheap guitars i can get a halfway decent guitar tone but i jsut seem to have an inability to dial in bass tones.

anyone got any starters?

Get some outboard. Plugins are crap for bass I think.

The Ampeg SVX plugin was brilliant. But the twats discontinued it.

Is that different to the IK plugin? 

guitarfishbay

Hmm my link won't post from ipad

guitarfishbay

It won't let me link to the IK site, here it is on audiodeluxe http://audiodeluxe.com/products/ik-multimedia-ampeg-svx

chrispy108

guitarfishbay said:

I mean it is obvious listening to the full track, but that must be one of the most mangled up bass tones I've heard that sounds awesome in the mix.  It sounds like a massive engine recorded in slow motion.

That's the thing with modern metal; there's no room left for the bass. Between chuggy guitars, double-bass drums and growly singers the whole frequency range is saturated, so to fit in you need some rumble and some clank.

The Pantera one has a bit more to it, but they're a one-guitar band and Dimebag's tone is actually a bit thin, leaving room for the bass.

guitarfishbay

Distorted guitar isn't how a guitar naturally sounds either - it has been an evolution over time to suit and even spawn different genres.

Bass just sits in a different place in modern metal, if you removed it most productions would fall to bits.  Most guitar forward stuff still relies on the bass guitar for the overall tone.  On that In Flames track the guitars are thin and kind of naff on their own, the bass absolutely makes it work.  I disagree there is no room, it is just a different place, and I find it strange that people are so critical of bass when it doesn't sound 'natural' anymore, because guitars almost never do either unless we're talking clean guitar.

Here is a live version of Take this Life (same In Flames track as above) not the best sound quality, but just highlights how major the bass tone is to that song.  Listen to the intro at 40 seconds, and pre chorus at 1:33 and chorus at 1:49 (on headphones preferably).  Bass is driving the whole thing through.

There is a separate issue in that a lot of low end frequencies are removed to make masters louder in commercial stuff - that is something different entirely.

Anyway, a lot of the issues are getting really low notes to come through - most playback systems don't reproduce the fundamental.  Pantera isn't low tuned (IIRC Broken has a low D), I think the low note on that In Flames track is A#.  My own issue is I need a low B to come through and there is a massive difference between a D and a B on a bass guitar.

Listen to this pretty clean isolated bass tone from Dream Theater, 38 seconds it is easy to hear the note, when he goes down the octave it becomes the clank/fret buzz you hear more than the note which just becomes low rumble even on headphones.  IIRC it is a C.  I quite like how it comes out FWIW, but it is easier to hear the notes when he's playing higher for sure.

chrispy108

Yeah, you're right, it's not no room for bass, just different room to a traditional "rock" bass sound. I'm not complaining about modern metal bass tones, more explaining why it sounds like a "massive engine in slow-mo". Its vitally important to the overall sound of the band. 

 I've been a bassist in a melodic death metal band. 

When we started we had one guitarist, so I had a big, clean sound with rumble and a lot of mids, and I played high a fair amount. 

When we got a second guitarist my sound got more distorted, my playing simpler and I basically just had rumble, low-mids and a treble "clank".  Not complaining about it, you just fit where their is room, which is a negotiation between the band. 

The sound a bassist needs depends on the context; Myuang obviously sounds different to Slipknot, who sound different to In Flames. I see bass as about supporting the song/bands sound (most of the time, there are obviously times to step forward a bit more), so you do what is needed, both playing wise and sound wise. Meshuggah live were an interesting example, as even though the guitars are playing the same note as the bass sometimes, the bass still really completes the sound and added a lot.

guitarfishbay

And months later, a sound clip arrives.  The strings are not fresh, I've been playing the crap out of this bass.  Edit: Updated link 06/06/15

guitarfishbay

And here's the above with an attempt at adding in lows using Waves Lo Air. 

Really interesting plugin, it was one sale a few weeks back so grabbed it but this is the first chance I've had to have a go.  It works the opposite way around to Rbass/Maxxbass, instead of adding harmonics above a point it adds them below.  Sounds like a subwoofer on its own really.  The controls are simple but I think blending it in seamlessly will be quite difficult, not sure how much I'll use it beyond an occasional effect.  Seems to be easiest to use if you stay within one octave, but need to do some more testing really.

Kebabkid

guitarfishbay said:

Though the new Sire Marcus Miller stuff is crazy cheap... less than £300 for a Jazz bass with the 'correct' woods (well, I want Alder/Rosewood) and an active preamp.  So new though, doesn't seem to be much word out about them.

http://www.thomann.de/gb/marcus_miller_v7_alder_4_ts.htm

Just nabbed one of these in Arctic White & alder (the V7) and it's incredible and yes! It cost less than £300 from Thomann and you could easily think you're playing something 3 times the price!

I've heard from friends on Basschat that a lot of people are snapping these up.

Quality, set-up, hardware and finish are all good. It's tonally impressive and versatile and they sound equally good in passive or active mode too.