Has Marshall lost its dominance?

ICBM

spacecadet said:

I think the problem with people wanting the "proper Marshall sound" is there are so many variables. Is the sound from a JTM, Plexi, JCM? Which era?

Proper Marshall sound… easy, any standard model from a JTM45 to a 2203. These all sound pretty much the same - with slightly different amounts of gain.

If you don't think so, ask Angus Young. He's always said that he used nothing but non-MV Marshalls, but there's plenty of photographic evidence showing he used Master Volumes as well. Can you tell for sure which he was using on any given track?

After that, they started to sound quite different and got progressively thinner and buzzier, and lost that huge 'roar' that the old ones all have, including the MVs.

All they have to do is make a modern amp which can replicate that sound, and one with more gain if they want to make it switchable, and they'll clean up. (Assuming it doesn't break down every other week.) This is something they've notably failed to do with any modern amp from the JCM800 Split-Channels onward, although they seem to think they have done.

richh

Funnily enough I saw the Stranglers last night.  Their current frontman has always had Marshall amps (that I can recall).  Last night he had Blackstar, who I don't recall hearing the name of previously.  It always seems that the most powerful piece of the Marshall marketing strategy (intentionally or otherwise) is having the name up there on stage.  You see your favourite bands and get the message in black 'n' white!

hugbot

crunchman said:

Been thinking about this and they need to make some strategic decisions going forward.  They either have to embrace DSP in a big way or shrink down and become a more boutique company with higher margins.

Like it or not digital is the future.  I bought a Kemper last year, and while I love my Lazy J and still use it, the Kemper is more practical for more applications.  PA Systems are getting better and better, and decent monitor speakers are a lot cheaper than they were.  My FOH sound live from the Kemper is great, and while it might be nice to have an amp on stage it's so much easier to carry a Kemper and a foot controller,  and just plug it into the PA than it is to carry a valve amp a heavy pedalboard, an SM 57 and a mic stand and faff around with getting the mic in the right place.  You also don't get problems from the noise police.

Give it a few years and you will be seeing sound quality close to the Kemper and Axe FX at cheaper price points, and digital will become mainstream.  At that point the market for the £400 to £800 valve amp will shrink.  There will probably still be a few cheap offshore valve amps that do the same thing as a £500 amp for a lot less money, and there will be a high end market for the handwired reissues etc but the average gigging musician will probably be digital.

Give it 25 years and valve amps may well have gone the way of film cameras as everyday tools for the working musician.  There might be a minority of enthusiasts, but the mainstream will be digital.

Marshall either need to go out and hire some good DSP guys, or buy up someone like Strymon or their days as a mass market manufacturer are probably numbered.

I just remembered the JMD series, a modelling amp that only models marshalls.

Parker

I appreciate some people think it is, but digital is not in my future. It sounds so sterile! I've given it a fair share of my time and nothing has hit the spot thus far. I get it has a use for certain musicians and recording artists, but you cant beat the noise and tone of a cranked valve amp. They also look sexy. A Kemper amp behind you is going to get you as much sex as reading a Batman comic at a Playboy party!  

ICBM

hugbot said:

I just remembered the JMD series, a modelling amp that only models marshalls.

And surprisingly enough, it's quite accurate if you want a 'snapshot' of the tone differences between them, without sounding *exactly* like the real thing. A friend of mine has one. It's also well-designed in that the control system is quite simple and intuitive to operate.

Sadly the control system has proved unreliable and it seems to lose its programming quite a lot. I've head other reports too - along with other faults - so I don't think it's an isolated example.

ToneControl

Parker said:

I appreciate some people think it is, but digital is not in my future. It sounds so sterile! I've given it a fair share of my time and nothing has hit the spot thus far. I get it has a use for certain musicians and recording artists, but you cant beat the noise and tone of a cranked valve amp. They also look sexy. A Kemper amp behind you is going to get you as much sex as reading a Batman comic at a Playboy party!  

but all the people I know who use them have (or did have) top notch valve amps too, indicating they must be rather good, so there are plenty with a different opinion

lustycourtier

richh said:

Funnily enough I saw the Stranglers last night.  Their current frontman has always had Marshall amps (that I can recall).  Last night he had Blackstar, who I don't recall hearing the name of previously.  It always seems that the most powerful piece of the Marshall marketing strategy (intentionally or otherwise) is having the name up there on stage.  You see your favourite bands and get the message in black 'n' white!

The Darkness used Blackstars on the last tour too. Bands that you fully associate with Marshall, not using them is strange.

ICBM

lustycourtier said:

The Darkness used Blackstars on the last tour too. Bands that you fully associate with Marshall, not using them is strange. 

I always associated them with Rectifiers, since they used to endorse them - although I always thought they would have been Marshalls, from the sound. So maybe it's not that much of a leap from using a Rectifier and sounding like a Marshall to using a Blackstar and sounding like a Marshall...

ThePrettyDamned

ICBM said:

lustycourtier said:

The Darkness used Blackstars on the last tour too. Bands that you fully associate with Marshall, not using them is strange. 

I always associated them with Rectifiers, since they used to endorse them - although I always thought they would have been Marshalls, from the sound. So maybe it's not that much of a leap from using a Rectifier and sounding like a Marshall to using a Blackstar and sounding like a Marshall...

AFAIK... I spoke to them after a gig once and asked about the gear (I didn't see a Justin Hawkins sig LP, for example). I think... They were sponsored by Mesa for the recs after the first album went big, but that was recorded entirely with old Marshall heads and a Powerbrake. 

When I saw them a couple of years ago before the reforming tour (they did a warm up gig in Norwich) they were back to the Marshalls and a Powerbrake sitting on top of them.  One of them had a Boss SD-1, but I think that was it for pedals. 

If you listen to the second album, I think it was recorded with Mesas, though sounds Marshally... So maybe it was just the Mesa for tour, record with what you love kinda situation. 

RobDavies

ESBlonde said:

There are a great number of re-inventions these days as well a a number of well engineered products. In addition the days of seeing handsome young sons of guns posing in front of necessary stacks is a couple of decades out of date. It is possible and indeed often desirable to produce 'the tone' from a smaller device.

Here is the classic shot.
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m44/big-kahuna/Misc/WallofDoom.jpg

Of course these days the X factum generation don't know the difference between and acoustic 6 string and a bass guitar (educated by the director of TOTP who took great delight in showing the bass player while a guitar solo took place). So knowing or caring what amp is used is unlikely to bother anyone.
Jim Marshall was a showman and old school salesman. He knew how to present product before a target market to create demand.

Great photo - although I can't work out which band it is?

shaunm

I thought this was somewhat relevant to this thread.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10153145507094659

The new one sounds great, but that JTM

Cirrus

RobDavies said:

ESBlonde said:

Great photo - although I can't work out which band it is?

Looks like U2.

Reverend

It's Immortal taken at Hellfest by friend Rachel. I shared it a couple of times and it went a bit viral.
Basically the festival has a couple of fake Marshall walls they use on the main stages.

spacecadet

I'll just leave this here...

jeztone2

I gigged a tsl60 head for 10 years & aside from the footswitch it was about as reliable as my Jubilee or my old Artiste combo from the 70's. But I know electrically inside the TSL has a design fault. So I think I was lucky.

I think the JVM's looked exciting. The Satriani one certainly has its fans. I see a lot of dsl's at gigs. I like the dsl50 though.

But a lot of it is fashion. I own an AC30 now. But Im tempted to buy a 50watt plexi reissue. 

I think the fact there ignoring the huge volume of people using pedalboards is financial suicide. A Marshall valve distortion pedal would sell like hotcakes, as would a mark 1 Guv'nor reissue. But then they've seemed behind the times. The Modefour came to market just as nu metal was dying off. Then they released the Vintage Modern & again that seems to have gone the way of the wind.

But there's more good EL34 based amps now. ENGL, H&K,Orange, Laney, PRS...its a tougher market for a grand spend.

shaunm

I don't own a Marshall and haven't for years. It's not because I don't like the tones, I love the vintage Marshalls it's just that I think that they are expensive for what they are. I'd like a 1974x but I think there are better sounding amps for less money. 

guitartango

Marshall cannot live in the past and must look to the future if they want to survive. People will still buy Marshall's because it's "Marshall".

Now this is what i call tone

315