Wiring help - PRS 57/08's with coil split into a Les Paul

PVO_Dave

Evening all, I bought some 57/08's (3 wire type, white for tap), I now need to get the rest of kit/look so I can wire them in. 

 I'd like to use the same caps & resistors to try and replicate the split you get in a PRS, but at this stage I'm not even sure which parts to get! Ideally, I'd just like to use one push/pull tone pot, that would split both pickups. Im guessing it's 3x CTS 500k pots, then the push/pull, there seems to be type A and B? 

This is the McCarty 58 diagram to show what they use cap / resistor wise. 

http://www.prsguitars.com/csc/schematics/2012/mc58_2012.pdf

 Any help / idiots guide / wiring diagram appreciated.

PVO_Dave

Oh, pot length as well, long shaft for a Les Paul?

Adam_MD

Which prs are you putting them in?

PVO_Dave

The extra rare Les Paul Standard model, like an SC without the finesse.

ICBM

lol

For a tone pot you want an A taper, and most Les Pauls do need a long bushing pot. (You can always shorten a long one with an extra nut on the inside, but can't 'lengthen' a short one except by routing the cavity floor, so get a long one.)

Personally I would fit separate coil splits. You get more flexibility that way, and keeps the control system 'logical', but that's just me…

You can also achieve coil splitting with just the tone pots themselves, if you don't want to mess about with push-pulls, but only separately per control.

ADP

The DiMarzio push/pull pots are made by CTS, as are the PRS ones. Side by side, they look absolutely identical. You'll need the 500K long shaft version, A taper, as ICBM says.

The white leads go to the lugs on the switch that are closest to the pot and the resistors are wired between the middle lugs and the casing to earth them. The wiring is fairly easy. I also agree that it's worth having a push/pull for each pickup. That way you can have the maximum number of combinations of split and full humbuckers. If you do that, you need to wire just one side of the switch on each pot.

PVO_Dave

Cheers @ICBM and @ADP

DiMarzio wise, I guess 1 or 2 (1 pot would be fine for me, like likelihood of needing the single coil / humbucker combo is slim to none) of these should do it? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Dimarzio-USA-500k-PUSH-PULL-POT-fits-Fender-Strat-Tele-Ibanez-Jem-RG-Les-Paul-/201292610556?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item2eddf97bfc

I'm tempted to make up a new loom full stop, might be easier to make it up then drop it in, would I then need 3x 500k CTS, audio or linear? Checking now, as googling is throwing up conflicting advice.

ADP

That's the DiMarzio you'll need. As for the others, you need an A500K (logarithmic) pot for tone but you can use a variety of others for the volume pots. I'm not sure but I think Gibson normally use 300K linear pots. You can use 500K and choose between linear and log. I think PRS use a 470K linear CTS pot.

ToneControl

I have a pair of those

I'd say the neck pickup is a little dark, I'd consider a treble bleed cap & resistor if you would like clarity at lower volume on the neck pup

PVO_Dave

Right, part shopping done!

On route:

1x DiMarzio 500k push/pull

1x Linear 500k pot

2x Audio/Logarithmic 500k pots

Vintage wire (1x white 1x black)

2x 180pf caps

2x .033uf caps 

Pretty sure I have the resistors at home.

I'll update this when I get the bits and the time to do it all

ADP

You might want to change the order for the pots. 'A' pots are audio/logarithmic and 'B' pots are linear. A push/pull pot is a mini-pot and as such isn't as good as a full-size pot for volume applications. That's why you normally find it used as a tone control. I'd buy two linear pots and one log pot if I were you.

PVO_Dave

Was planning to use the two audio ones for volume, the push pull and and linear for tone?

ADP

Audio-taper pots are normally used for tone. You can use either for volume, but I think most companies use linear pots.

PVO_Dave

This is what happens trying to order things at work . I've emailed to see if the order has been sent, if not I'll get the pot added to the order, either way I'll order another linear tomorrow.

Thanks for the help so far. 

PVO_Dave

All the bits are here now, so trying to work out what to do (calling @ADP and @ICBM )

This is how the guitar is now:

This is my mockup, based on a blend the PRS schematics for both an MC58 (with split 57/08's) and the SC58 (no split). I'll leave the metal plate in and the earthing thats in place for the switch, am I close?

 

EDIT - change of position of the vol / tone is on purpose.

ADP

I'm not exactly sure about your key, but it looks like you might need to revise your schematic. Looking at the volume pots from the bottom, they should be live/hot, output and earth/ground, from left to right.

You have the tone pots connected correctly and the treble-bleed caps in the right place, but it looks like you have both the live lead and the output soldered to the middle lug. I'm pretty sure that like this you'd have both pickups on full volume all the time. The live goes to the lug on the right and the middle lug goes to the switch. The braided shield is soldered to the casing of the volume pot as shown.

For the split, you solder the resistors between the middle lugs and the casing, and the white leads to the lugs closest to the casing. The way a push/pull switch works is that the switch makes a connection between two lugs on each side at a time. In the down position, the resistors are connected to the empty lugs and have no effect. In the up position, the split leads are run to earth via the resistors, effectively turning them off but leaving a signal equal to the value of the resistors in play to be added to the signal from the still active coils.

I hope that's all clear.

PVO_Dave

That makes sense, so the fatter wires in the diagram are from the pickups, on the volume pot they should really go to the same leg as the uf cap?

I'll update the image for 100% reassurance tonight, might have a go at this tomorrow then

Thanks @ADP

PVO_Dave

Does this look right @ADP

Think I got myself confused, as on the PRS schematic I linked originally, the pickup and switch wires are in different places, not sure how important that is though?

ADP

That looks good now. You'll see that it's the same as the original wiring in the photograph you posted.

PVO_Dave

Thanks for the help! If I get time, I might have a go at this tomorrow, I'll try and squeeze a before recording in first

PVO_Dave

The soldering iron finally came out tonight!

The good news, the wiring diagram worked! The pickups sound as good as expected, the splits work great too

The bad news, the push/pull pot is way too short, by a long shot. I'll have to see what I can find. 

Thanks to @ADP for the help

The results:

http://i1175.photobucket.com/albums/r638/davewitchalls/5708 Wiring/image.jpg3.jpg

http://i1175.photobucket.com/albums/r638/davewitchalls/5708 Wiring/image.jpg1.jpg

The little pot lol

http://i1175.photobucket.com/albums/r638/davewitchalls/5708 Wiring/image.jpg2.jpg