Oak for a body and various questions.

menamestom

Just wondering what a body made of Oak would be like.  I have some old solid oak worktop and a mate of mine has a wood turning workshop and is interested in making some bodies.  He has some old Mahogany from furniture that he can use as well.

I'm thinking with the Oak it might be a bit heavy so it could be worth putting a solid top over the Oak and adding some chambers.  I guess we cut it out and check its weight.

Some questions from our project:-

Where is a good place to get a Telecaster template?

Do we need additional templates if I want a Humbucker in the neck?  Or can you get humbucker templates that go over the standard tele template.

Where is the best place to but body blanks?  I'm happy to try Alder, Pine and Ash etc but it would be nice to try some off the wall options too.

mart

Oak is something like 50% denser than most of the common body woods - mahogany, ash, alder. So it is going to be a heavy body without chambering. Other than that I have no idea about sounds, but I recall reading recently of someone building a body from oak, so it might be worth googling.

impmann

Er Brian May?????

WezV

impmann said:

Er Brian May?????

its not made from solid oak, the body is mainly softwood blockboard with an oak insert and mahogany veneers.  the fretboard is also oak

 

but its still the example people always give for an oak guitar.   Its pretty much the only example

 

 

You can build a guitar out of oak, but why bother.  Its too heavy, its too hard on tools, its not nice to work, it can be unstable.   the extra time you will spend making it work could be invested on a better bit of wood instead

 

WezV

I just got some body blanks of sherwin timber on ebay

 

 

2 blocks of dark red meranti, planed and ready to use, 1 big plank of idigbo.  all under £30 each.  all pretty light weight and easy to work with

 

p90fool

I made a Tele body out of oak in the early 80s. It had a brittle, upper midrange harshness to it that I couldn't dial out.
I went through DiMarzio SD, Fender Tele, Schecter singlecoil and H/B and old Japanese gold foil pickups and the ugly overtones from the body wood never went away.

I gave up in the end, it might even still be in the attic.

usedtobe

Maybe it has mellowed with age...??

Dalefty

Oak is not a problem to use for making guitar bodies, though you going to want to have some really good quality woodworking tools to handle the density of the wood, I have a guitar with it's body made of white oak, a wood traditionally used for making wooden ships, and a bass guitar with a body made of teak, if you like heavy weighty guitars it's a good wood to use, if you don't like heavy guitars I would avoid using it, because as others have said it is a really dense wood, and your going to need a lot of weight relief chambers to compensate for the extra density of the wood compared to the traditional woods used in electric guitar bodies.

Here is something you might find interesting about using none traditional woods for making instruments out of:

http://www.guitarnation.com/articles/calkin.htm

DaLefty

A5D5E5

As others have mentioned, oak is hard on tools, but it is worth stressing just how hard - old oak (such as an old workshop bench) is much, much harder than normal guitar hardwoods - there is a reason they use it for buildings.

A couple of years ago I was building something in the garden and cutting up old oak railway sleepers with a reciprocating saw.  I was getting about two cuts per blade (and they were good quality blades, not cheap shit).  Honestly, it was like cutting iron. 

menamestom

So Oak is harder than Maple?

The guy that would cut the bodies was not bothered about its hardness an he works with Oak all the time, the tools are designed for the hardest woods. Still sounds like it's not worth the effort, but could be good to practise on.

WezV

Oak is harder, coarser and less consistent than maple.

A5D5E5

There is variation between different types of oak and maple and oak (in particular) gets harder as it gets older, so yes, I'd say it can be much harder to cut than maple.  But it isn't impossible (despite what I said above).  Make sure your tools are sharp though!

Dalefty

A5D5E5 said:

There is variation between different types of oak and maple and oak (in particular) gets harder as it gets older, so yes, I'd say it can be much harder to cut than maple.  But it isn't impossible (despite what I said above).  Make sure your tools are sharp though!

Not to mention variation in the same piece of oak, in one piece you will have areas that are harder than others, some soft areas, it is actually quite an interesting wood to work with if you enjoy working with wood, not to mention you can get some great finishes with it.


DaLefty

Andyjr1515

Dalefty said:

Oak is not a problem to use for making guitar bodies, though you going to want to have some really good quality woodworking tools to handle the density of the wood, I have a guitar with it's body made of white oak, a wood traditionally used for making wooden ships, and a bass guitar with a body made of teak, if you like heavy weighty guitars it's a good wood to use, if you don't like heavy guitars I would avoid using it, because as others have said it is a really dense wood, and your going to need a lot of weight relief chambers to compensate for the extra density of the wood compared to the traditional woods used in electric guitar bodies.

Here is something you might find interesting about using none traditional woods for making instruments out of:

http://www.guitarnation.com/articles/calkin.htm

DaLefty

Couldn't get the link to work but found the article easily enough from the guitarnation website. Excellent article! I've used some of the woods he talks about and absolutely agree with his comments. Clearly, it is written from an acoustic point of view but many of the comments are universal. Thanks for posting it @DaLefty

mart

WezV said:

Oak is harder, coarser and less consistent ....

Ah, so typically English!

ICBM

WezV said: 

but its still the example people always give for an oak guitar.   Its pretty much the only example

Some Japanese guitars and basses from the 80s made by Matsumoku, most notably the Aria SB1000, were oak - although not standard European or American oak, it was Japanese oak which is slightly more open-grained and lighter.

It's always the first thing I think of when oak is mentioned, possibly because one was my first bass. It was quite heavy, but not ridiculously so.

WezV

you have to be really careful when someone adds a country name to the start of a generic wood name.   apparently two different woods get sold as japanese oak.  one is an oak, the other is no relative at all.

its worse with australian trees.  they were almost always named based on the english tree they resemble closest,  rather than the use or qualities of the wood.   certainly not any genetic similarity

anyway,  lets assume we are talking about oak purchased in the UK here.  It probably won't be English oak, but it will be close to that in most of of its properties

Dalefty

Andyjr1515 said:

Couldn't get the link to work but found the article easily enough from the guitarnation website. Excellent article! I've used some of the woods he talks about and absolutely agree with his comments. Clearly, it is written from an acoustic point of view but many of the comments are universal. Thanks for posting it @DaLefty

I don't know how much of the artice I agree with, there is quite a lot of it that I don't aggree with, especially the notion that some species of wood make good instruments and that others don't, I'm firmly in the camp that believes that wood species and even quality has an impact on not just the instruments quality, but also it's tone.  What I liked about the article and about the only thing I agree with is his descriptions of what it's like to work with the so called alternative wood species and his descriptions of them, but unlike the author of the article I firmly believe that they have an impact on sound, even if it's just the fact that you tend to handle something that feels 'solid' and 'strong' and generally weighty different to how you handle something that feels 'light' and so forth. @Andyjr1515

DaLefty

WezV

Its a good article, although obviously focused on acoustics.   I have actually used  most of the woods he lists as alternative in electric builds

Ash - not really an alternative for electrics.  And I think most of us are aware that "swamp" ash is usually lighter.  Japanese Ash (Sen) is almost always very heavy.    I have used English Ash before too.  Very heavy and bright but worked well with a P-90 and decent tone control.   I decided not to use any more english ash for guitars, instead I made a bench for the garden with it

Australian Blackwood.  i have only used this as a thin facing, not somethign that makes much tonal difference. it is just like koa as far as I am concerned

Birch - again only used this as a veneer so won't comment on its tonal impacts

Black limba - This is termenilia Superba and the white and black varieties come from the same species.  Its awesome, like mahogany +.  I have used this is black and white versions, as well as idigbo (termenilia Ivorensis) which has a slightly coarser  more interlocked grain and is doesn't get as dark as the other tree.  Tonally they are pretty comparable

Bubinga - its a very hard wood, makes great fretboards.  It can be very hard to carve, i tried to make a one peice neck with it once and gave up.  I do like using it as a neck laminate though, and i made a fanned fret baritone with bubinga wings that maintained clarity at very low tunings

Butternut - never used

Cherry - only used once and never finished the guitar.  It was quite heavy but seemed a pretty good choice

Honduras Rosewood - have some waiting to be used

Imbuya - used this quite a few times early on.  It smells wonderful.  It can be a bit heavy for solid guitars but always sounded good

Meranti - just using this for the first time now.  Its a good weight, it has a nice tap tone and its easy to work.  Think I will be using more of it

Myrtle. - not used

Oak - I was offered  a big oak mantle the other week.  Its from a relatively new house so was still nice and straight  and it was about enough for 8 guitar bodies.  but no, its not for me 

Paduak - love this wood, it can be a bit heavy but is okay for smally sized bodies.  It does have a coarse grain and massive pores which can make it splinter easily - but it polishes up really nicely

Sapele - usually stiffer than other mahoganies and a bit heavier too, but majes good guitars.  I think its brighter, I know others than think its darker 

Shedua - I have used this on necks before, usually sold as Amazaque or Ovankgol.  Makes realy nice necks and polishes up to a lovely finish.   good wood for the price but can splinter a bit when working

Sycamore - I have used the european variety which is an Acer (maple), but it tends to be softer and less bright than harder species of maple.  I have also used the London Plane tree which gets sold as sycamore in the US and often plane or Lacewood here.  Thats quite a soft wood but I made a really nice bass out of some. mahogany ish in tone

Walnut - with english walnut weight is a real issue but it will make nice guitars.  The american stuff tends to be lighter and more open grained - drinks finish.

White pine - never actually used for a guitar, but i do have some other softwoods in stock ready to use for necks (with appropriate support).  I have Port orford cedar and douglas fir ready to use

Zebrawood - this is another I use for necks.  I did intend on using it for my first guitar body but changed my mind as soon as I picked up the body blank.   love zebrano necks though

Ziricote - love this one for fretboards - worth paying a premium for good stuff as I have had some which was a dull grey and just ended up getting dyed black.  Conversely the prettiest piece I had felt too textured no matter how smooth I sanded it.

 

 

anyway - any talk on wood is all about generalisations.  Saying "mahogany will make a good guitar" is the equivilent  of saying "Chinese people are good at maths".   It can be a damaging generalisation for all involved

 

So let me change what I said about oak.  feel free to use it, you may even get a nice guitar... but I would still strongly advise against using it on a first guitar.  Maybe one to consider once you have made a few and have a better idea about material selection.   I was put off bubinga  for a while due to the failed neck, but once my skills and tools had improved I managed to use it successfully