Modern vehicles are just so much shite

Phil_aka_Pip

Well, yes and no, Chilli. The fault code is I think still there, but the silly on board computer is not refusing to run the engine now. How long this state persists is anybody's guess. Maybe it stopped sulking because I read the fault code? The instrument panel hasn't displayed any of its glitches this week, but the outside temperature display (on the radio of all places to put it - why there??) is now displaying "--" instead of so many degrees C. It has done this before for no readily apparent reason.

I've been using the van this week to do the 40 mile round trip to work, but instead of gunning it up to an indicated 80 whenever possible I've been finding a convenient truck and sitting behind it, thus using a lot less fuel and putting the engine under a lot less stress. Funnily enough my journey time is not affected a great deal.

The oil and coolant seem to maintaining their levels, with no contamination of the coolant. There are small traces of mayonnaise around the oil filler cap, but none on the dipstick. Word has it that the mayo may be the result of gas blowing back past a scraper ring, so I suppose a compression test might reveal that. However the engine pulls all right so I'm not too bothered about that.

I'm beginning to think that p/x for a cheap £600 hatchback may be a bit premature, there might be some life left in the van yet. I should damn well hope so given what I paid for it and what it's cost me so far!

chillidoggy

Hmm. I didn't read all the other stuff, but if the ambient temperature sensor is giving the wrong output, and it's part of the ECU, that might well bugger-up the info that the engine computer puts out to the fuel injection system. Mayonnaise can be the result of the engine running too cold, and not being able to get rid of condensation. It can also be the crankcase breather system is blocked, or faulty, which has the same effect.

FX_Munkee

The ambient temperature sensor that tells you the outside temp is never used by the ECU for it's calculations by any manufacturer as far as I'm aware.

Phil_aka_Pip

FX_Munkee said:

The ambient temperature sensor that tells you the outside temp is never used by the ECU for it's calculations by any manufacturer as far as I'm aware.

Just as well. tbh its not making a lot of difference anyway

chillidoggy

FX_Munkee said:

The ambient temperature sensor that tells you the outside temp is never used by the ECU for it's calculations by any manufacturer as far as I'm aware.

Not necessarily the case, Munkee. http://www.howcarswork.co.uk/modules/articles/article.php?id=4 But I think it depends on the manufacturer.

Phil_aka_Pip

It doesn't make much difference to mine. The engine hasn't missed a beat in the last 3 days. Another odd thing is that the water temperature meter rarely comes off minimum now, whereas it used to read 75 and quite quickly rise to 85 if I stopped in a traffic queue. I left the engine running while I loaded the van this morning, and the gauge does work, I saw it climb to decidedly off minimum when the engine had warmed up. Getting out on the road, it settled down to reading minimum again. There is still no evidence of coolant loss or of coolant contamination.

FX_Munkee

chillidoggy said:

FX_Munkee said:

The ambient temperature sensor that tells you the outside temp is never used by the ECU for it's calculations by any manufacturer as far as I'm aware.

Not necessarily the case, Munkee. http://www.howcarswork.co.uk/modules/articles/article.php?id=4 But I think it depends on the manufacturer.

The sensor which is used to display the "outside ambient temperature" on the dash or wherever is not the same as the one used by the ECU. I've never seen a case where this is not true. The ECU sensors will be in the air intake tract, sometimes there's a pair (for turbo applications) refered to as "Intake Ambient Temp" or IAT sensors.
The one that tells you the bleeding obvious ie. it's freezing outside is usually a low grade thermistor quite often housed in a little bulge on the underside of one of the wing mirrors.

FX_Munkee

Phil_aka_Pip said:

It doesn't make much difference to mine. The engine hasn't missed a beat in the last 3 days. Another odd thing is that the water temperature meter rarely comes off minimum now, whereas it used to read 75 and quite quickly rise to 85 if I stopped in a traffic queue. I left the engine running while I loaded the van this morning, and the gauge does work, I saw it climb to decidedly off minimum when the engine had warmed up. Getting out on the road, it settled down to reading minimum again. There is still no evidence of coolant loss or of coolant contamination.

That would be a classic symptom of a failed thermostat (they fail open/safe). The water is constantly going via the radiator and therefore not heating up very quickly at all.
You will be using more fuel and it might explain the mayo on the oil cap especially if you've not done any long journeys in the car.

chillidoggy

What he said. Change the stat, Phil.

Phil_aka_Pip

I just saw my friendly mechanic. I'd do it myself except you have to take the cam belt off. Vauxhall are bastards. On other engines changing a thermostat is a 10 minute job.

FX_Munkee

Phil_aka_Pip said:

I just saw my friendly mechanic. I'd do it myself except you have to take the cam belt off. Vauxhall are bastards. On other engines changing a thermostat is a 10 minute job.

??? what engine is it (vehicle will do)? Cambelt off? Yes if it were the water pump, but I'm struggling to think of an engine that requires that level of access to change the TStat.

Phil_aka_Pip

Vauxhall Combo van 1.6 8valve petrol

FX_Munkee

OK here's a quick check you can do. Open the bonnet, find the radiator follow the big hose from the top of the radiator to where it meets the engine block, that is (almost always) the thermostat housing, usually a dome shaped casting with 2 or 3 bolts holding the top on. If you can find that you can change the thermostat.
In the meantime I'll try and find some proper data on that engine.

FX_Munkee

OK I've checked, your mechanic is correct
I've haven't seen something that dumb since Renault 5's of the early 80's (and I have an Alfa!!)
Apparently what a lot of people do is fit an inline thermostat instead, like this:-
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/OEM-Replacement-Thermostat-Renault-4-5-21-25-Espace-Trafic-Volvo-345-343-340-/350826845326
Seeing as your thermostat is now (probably) wide open, it's not doing anything. Adding this into that top hose I mentioned in the post above, should work perfectly adequately.
Mention it to your friendly mechanic and see what he thinks.

Phil_aka_Pip

@FX_Munkee I did, but didn't have the ebay reference that you found. His opinion (as an ex-RAC man) is that he's seen thermostats fail shut as well as fail open, and he's not convinced that putting one in line with the hose is a good solution. Even if it would work OK there's still a dodgy thermostat in the system. He'd rather take it out, so if he's going to do that then he might as well fit a new one as put one inline with the hose. I could argue that the hose-inline version would be easier to fix next time it fails ... must look at that ebay link and see if the product is useable on my wagon.

edit will probably have to wait till I get home as there's something funny going on with the iceweasel browser I'm using to look at the ebay site.

ESBlonde

Not so much a rant about modern cars as about the lack of a spare wheel.

Went to one of the local Jam sessions last night, got several sessions in, met some friends and a drummer I was in a band with 30 years ago (he didn't even recognise my fat grey balding self ffs). Great evening until on the drive home I get a serious puncture. No spare but a lovely bottle of gunk and a pump. So I insert the gunk (and get it all over my hands). Pump operated and fuck all happens. Side wall is split! So I call the RAC and they come to lift the car and get me home just after 1:00am on a school night. So this morning I get up but can't go to work until I have fixed the puncture, but the car won't move because I don't have a spare. So I have to take the wheel off and lug it (tied to my sack-barrow) over half a mile to the industrial estate to be repaired before I can go home and refit the wheel. Then I have to wash the shyte off my hands etc. and go to work late all because I didn't have a fecking spare.

Bring on all the arguments about hauling that weight around using fuel and taking up space, but what happens if it's a girl or someone that lives miles from a garage/tyre services?

/[Rant off]

VimFuego

as an extension to ES' rant, external spare wheels. My car has one, I need to get to it, but because it's external, the nut for the clamp has rusted solid. I don't want to force it in case I sheer it, but may have to. 

ICBM

I've said this before but that's an absolute deal-breaker for me with buying any car. A space-saver spare is bad enough, but the gunk stuff is not an acceptable means of fixing a flat tyre, to me.

The weight of a space saver or even a full spare isn't going to make any significant difference to the fuel economy. Even if it did, so what? Apparently the tyre fitting companies charge extra for cleaning the rim and the tyre (even if they will accept a gunked tyre for repair at all), so that might well cost more than the fuel saving if you're unlucky and it happens more often than once in a blue moon.

One reason I don't like the space-savers is that if you have a front puncture you need to do *two* wheel changes - or at least you do if you've watched any videos of what happens when you have to do an emergency stop, even from below the rated speed, with one on the front. But better than no spare at all.

Phil_aka_Pip

ICBM said:

I've said this before but that's an absolute deal-breaker for me with buying any car. A space-saver spare is bad

this ^

if it hasn't got a proper spare wheel, I don't want it

ESBlonde

VimFuego said:

as an extension to ES' rant, external spare wheels. My car has one, I need to get to it, but because it's external, the nut for the clamp has rusted solid. I don't want to force it in case I sheer it, but may have to. 

Try dabbing some diesel on the tread/area each day for a week or two. That stuff gets in and just might ease it up. Worth a try.