Alternate Picking

SimonC

Having played "satisfactorily" for a few years, I recently decided to try to up my game and attempt to improve in all areas especially technique.

I decided to right back to basics and have disciplined myself to follow the Justin Guitar course to hopefully banish a few bad habits.

One of the exercises I've been practising recently is running up and down the major scale, against a metronome, gradually increasing speed.

Justin emphasises the importance of maintaining alternate picking while doing this, but I've been tending to fall back to economy picking as speed increases,

Is there really any practical, musical benefit in trying to force myself to maintain alternate picking in this way?

Is it such a bad thing, technique wise, to fall into economy picking when it feels more comfortable?

octatonic

It is up to you whether it is important or not.

Some people want to be able to switch between different playing styles seamlessly.

Some want to be focussed more on specific techniques.

There is nothing wrong with relying on economy and not being able to play alternate picking at speed but they do sound different.

The reason you can't play it at higher speeds yet is you haven't spent enough time at lower speeds to get it fully into your technique.

Keep the metronome at lower speeds and drill it over and over- it might take weeks or months.

5bpm a week is a good speed increase to aim for.

mike_l

I alternate between picking at 55/65/75 bpm and 50/60/70bpm per practise session.

Keeps things varied. I have a few exercises for doing this, but any good "how to play" book or DVD will show you these or plenty more. Mine are the Troy Stetina series, but I have others too.

I also don't just pick on one string, use 2 side by side, or try string skipping as well.

I have 3 exercises for making sure I can pick accurately at each speed. If not, I'll slow down to a point where I can.

Then when my picking hand is working accurately I'll vary the exercises so I'm not just going over the same pattern each time.

octatonic

FWIW my exercises are all done about 60% of my maximum speed- this is something I got from a Steve Morse interview way back in the early 90's

The last 10 mins or so of a practice session I work on speed but you have to remember that speed is a byproduct of accuracy.

If you drill at speeds lower than your maximum you will be able to play faster sooner (provided you do it accurately).

If you drill close to your maximum speed you will simply reinforce the inaccuracy that is present in your playing.

mike_l

octatonic said:

 

If you drill close to your maximum speed you will simply reinforce the inaccuracy that is present in your playing.

This is why I make sure my picking hand is working at lower speeds first.

Also I vary quavers, semi-quavers and triplets. I only ever let myself go full-up after getting my picking right at lower speeds first.

mike_l

Also, practising this* for (say) half an hour a night, is better than 2 hours once a week.

If I practised on days 1/2/3/4/6 and had a break on days 5/7 the days immediately after the break my playing is a bit behind where it was before.

 

 

*same for anything.

ElectroDan

I still run up and down a lot with strict alternate picking. I think you will benefit from getting that solidly into your technical repertoire. If you are gravitating towards economy picking and are happy with the timbre that produces, then certainly stick at it. My own playing contains a mix of Alternate, Economy, Legato and Hybrid picking that (via practice) all fit together without a second thought now.

The various picking styles offered up by Justin, Troy Grady, Marty Friedman, Frank Gambale, Yngwie, Steve Morse... whoever, are all their personal solution to expressing themselves through the instrument.

Try as many different techniques as you can find and develop your own way from one or more of those. There is no one right way of playing. If it sounds good, it is good.

PolarityMan

SimonC said:

Having played "satisfactorily" for a few years, I recently decided to try to up my game and attempt to improve in all areas especially technique.

I decided to right back to basics and have disciplined myself to follow the Justin Guitar course to hopefully banish a few bad habits.

One of the exercises I've been practising recently is running up and down the major scale, against a metronome, gradually increasing speed.

Justin emphasises the importance of maintaining alternate picking while doing this, but I've been tending to fall back to economy picking as speed increases,

Is there really any practical, musical benefit in trying to force myself to maintain alternate picking in this way?

Is it such a bad thing, technique wise, to fall into economy picking when it feels more comfortable?

Ultimately it's your down picking speed that's important anyways \m/

rocktron

Down picking gives you a heavier sound - up picking gives a lighter sound.

Follow your Justin Guitar course, but start slowly at first and increase your speed gradually. 

I think that you are falling back to economy picking due mainly to muscle memory, but with practice, you will get it right. It could take up to a month, maybe two, with 30 minutes of practice a day.

The other exercise I would recommend is to alternate pick using all four fingers on a string, and then move on to the next string, and so on. Then work your way backwards. For example:-

6th string 5th fret - first finger down pick

6th string 6th fret - second finger up pick

6th string 7th fret - third finger down pick

6th string 8th fret - fourth finger up pick

Repeat on the 5th, 4th, 3rd, 3nd, and 1st strings.    

Practice this up and down the fretboard.

Start slowly at first, and accelerate to speed.

You will make mistakes. Correct your mistake as you go along, to train your fingers to synchronise with your picking hand, and move on. 

When you have mastered this, you can practice doing this backwards from the first string.

Michael Angelo Batio also makes mistakes, and has to practice: -

 

PolarityMan

rocktron said:

Down picking gives you a heavier sound -

 

The rest of that post is superflous

musteatbrain

broken record...... Troy Grady. You Tube Channel. Most comprehensive info on all forms of picking ever published

Teetonetal

Alternate vs economy picking is one of "those" questions. 

The right answer is pick which ever works for you. I find myself doing both these days and I don't really think about it, some licks naturally seems to suggest alternate some economy. Both give slightly different sounds so maybe let that be your guide.

Which ever you do, just make sure it's accurate and not at all sloppy eh?

musteatbrain

Rick Graham just made a few comments on the economy vs alternate discussion.

GuyBoden

Alternate, economy, hybrid, legato, fingers.  Why not try them all, each creates a slightly different sound. Initially, I was very aware of the mechanics of my picking, trying to get the least amount of pick movement, varying the pick angle to the strings, being more efficient, relaxing, comparing more string attack/less string attacked, then over time it became intuitive and then, like many have said in previous posts, you just don't think about it, you play music. 

SimonC

Many thanks for the advice, everyone.

I guess the reality is that accurate alternate picking is a good skill to learn, but not necessarily essential, and not many tutors fully explain the benefits, so it often seems like an exercise for exercise sake.

I'll definitely persevere though.

It just struck me that not much musical guitar playing I've heard involves running up and down scales with precise alternate picking.

GuyBoden

Back in the day, this Paul Gilbert video was the Alternate picking method to learn from, probably still is...............

ElectroDan

You're right. But the practice of running up and down them, will mean that when you need to play a run as part of a melodic solo, the coordination will be there for you to do so.

If you listen carefully to your favourite solo's, some of them will be snippets of exercises connected together cleverly so they no longer sound boring. It's only how and when you use notes or techniques that makes them good (or bad).

TheBlueWolf

I tend to practise at a certain speed for at least a week before increasing the tempo.Also I start off at eight notes before going up to triplets and sixteenths. That gives me a chance to warm both hands up a bit. Ive just realised I keep my warm up exercises at a constant tempo so Im not pushing it at first.

Someone said accuracy before speed and I agree with that

Barney

i do legato ..hybrid and economy ...my least favourite one or the one i didnt do as well was alternate and i cant believe by neglecting that it seriously held my playing back

i think now alternate is probably the most important to get right for a few reasons ...accents are better and easier in your playing with alternate .....you dont have to think about certain runs that only ecconomy picking will fit by starting on certain notes ...or legato not being possible on such and such a run because it falls wrong on the strings ...wherever you are with alternate you can go wherever else you need to be cos you are not limited....saying that i think all should be learned but dont neglect alternate ....its also the basis of economy ...

mike_l

TheBlueWolf said:

 That gives me a chance to warm both hands up a bit. Ive just realised I keep my warm up exercises at a constant tempo so Im not pushing it at first.

Someone said accuracy before speed and I agree with that

My warmup is using fingers 1/2 frets 5/6 go from low E to high e, then high e to low E.

then finger 2/3 on frets 6/7 same low - high then high - low
then fingers 3/4 on frets 7/8 low - high high - low.

All so you play each string twice.

All on a regular 50 or 60 BPM

I also do fingers 1/3 on frets 5/7 and fingers 2/4 on frets 6/8.

Again on 50 BPM. and literally play on the click. This is only the warm-up, hence it's played slowly.

TheBlueWolf

mike_l said:

TheBlueWolf said:

 That gives me a chance to warm both hands up a bit. Ive just realised I keep my warm up exercises at a constant tempo so Im not pushing it at first.

Someone said accuracy before speed and I agree with that

My warmup is using fingers 1/2 frets 5/6 go from low E to high e, then high e to low E.

then finger 2/3 on frets 6/7 same low - high then high - low
then fingers 3/4 on frets 7/8 low - high high - low.

All so you play each string twice.

All on a regular 50 or 60 BPM

I also do fingers 1/3 on frets 5/7 and fingers 2/4 on frets 6/8.

Again on 50 BPM. and literally play on the click. This is only the warm-up, hence it's played slowly.

Im giving that a try