Who wants to laugh at my singing?

Drew_TNBD

Sambostar said:

@Drew_fx. Do you normally sing that high?  It sounds alright, like it's not just you head voice and is flowing through.  Amazing that you can sing that high.  Is that at the upper end of your range?  When I try and sing high I can barely make Baritone, yet my bass voice is shyte as well.  So well done for you for sounding like a girl.  Sounds good.  A bit pure though.

Nah I can go a bit higher, but not much, maybe a few more semi-tones. I can go pretty low without flapping out. With the low-stuff you kinda need to control chest voice, and stop it from getting so full and boomy; which helps your high transitions too.

I think my girlishness is thanks to all of the vaginas I've consumed.

Fretwired said:

How was it recorded?

lol, really ghetto. Handheld SM57A Beta, with my sofa turned up on it's side so it was standing up vertically, and singing into it to help with absorption - I didn't want the nasty reverb of my room getting into the recording.

I need to get a proper setup, some sort of tube based preamp with a built in EQ, and I'd like a really good condenser or a Shure SM7B.

Danny1969

I thought the pitching was pretty good, I wouldn't say it was particularly high as far as rock vocals go but the cleanness of it makes it sound higher in pitch than it is. Deffo worth pursuing more vocal recordings and learning how to get the best recorded takes, which is actually different from learning to sing 

SM7B is a great choice and a better bet for home recording than a condensor 

Drew_TNBD

Danny1969 said:

I thought the pitching was pretty good, I wouldn't say it was particularly high as far as rock vocals go but the cleanness of it makes it sound higher in pitch than it is. Deffo worth pursuing more vocal recordings and learning how to get the best recorded takes, which is actually different from learning to sing 

SM7B is a great choice and a better bet for home recording than a condensor 

Any thoughts on a channel strip guv? I've got a MOTU 8 Pre here at home, but strikes me something with a bit of grit would sound great for the kind of thing I want to do.

Danny1969

I would get a 500 series frame and one really nice comp module and one really nice EQ module to go in it as a bullet proof vocal chain 

These kind of things :

http://www.thomann.de/gb/componente_sistem_500.html

guitarfishbay

The Lindell stuff looks pretty cool for that.  

Lindell 7X-500 is 1176 style for about £200 new.

I haven't bought any external comp/eq gear yet and I'm not sure if I want to.  I do like the workflow of digital but I would be confident running recorded material through a hardware compressor if it really was that much better.  I don't think I'd want to commit compression while tracking just yet.  So I guess I'd not bother buying an external EQ, just a compressor.

I'm also not sure how much better the results would be if I went and bought an external pre and ran that into my Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 for tracking vocals.  You can't bypass the preamps and I've found mixed responses on how much of an issue that is.

Best plugin comps I have are the Waves CLA stuff.  A lot of people are making noise about the Slate VMR but I've not demoed it yet.

Drew_TNBD

Yeah I've got a bunch of Waves stuff as well.

I guess what I'd like is something external that will add a bit of saturation, a bit of excitement, going in.. and help tame some of the dynamics of what I'm recording a bit as well. I'm less fussed about EQ.

We've got a shit ton of gear at my office - got a dbx compressor that is to die for - but obviously I need something for home use as well. hmmmmm.... will give it some thought.

Cirrus

When we did our album I recorded the singer with an SM7 or Coles4038 into an LA610. Turns out that gear can make a difference!

guitarfishbay

I take it you did that in a studio @Cirrus ?

I've looked at renting but to be honest I'd rather buy something, I can get a nice dryish vocal now and would rather not be rushed on recording to fit a budget.  It would be a two stage process for me I think.  Drum tracking is happening in June and to be honest I don't think there is much I can afford to do by then, but I'm happy with what I have mic wise.  Vocal tracking should happen in July, by that point I'd consider getting a preamp if it would make a difference (with the caveat it is going through an interface that can't bypass preamps), and in August I'd hope to be mixing so would consider a hardware compressor if I've managed to flog a couple of bits/bobs I've got for sale.  I could do it all without buying anything, but I'm getting strong YOLO urges to just go screw it, and do it, because I might not get another chance to have all the bits in place etc.

I've been pretty much guitar GAS free for a while now, but it always seems like there's something else musical that needs buying!

Cirrus

guitarfishbay said:

I take it you did that in a studio @Cirrus ?...

...by that point I'd consider getting a preamp if it would make a difference (with the caveat it is going through an interface that can't bypass preamps), and in August I'd hope to be mixing so would consider a hardware compressor...

Yes, though the mics were ours. I'd love to be able to justify a decent pre like that, actually though its main selling point came from being able to add great compression on the way in - I'm definitely in the "don't put it off 'til later" camp there.

As for preamp into preamp... it depends. If you're happy that the preamps in the focusrite aren't detracting from the sound, and you want a preamp that ADDS something - be it distortion/ subtle harmonic lift/ a particular sound I don't see any reason not to. If the preamps in the focusrite are detracting from the sound though, they'll always do that no matter what you put in front - though of course some pres might interact better with the mics in terms of imput impedence. Also, sometimes with those combined mic/line inputs the line input bypasses a preamp stage which means if the preamps are shit (no idea, never heard them!) using the line in can still have a sonic benefit.

octatonic

guitarfishbay said:

Best plugin comps I have are the Waves CLA stuff.  A lot of people are making noise about the Slate VMR but I've not demoed it yet.

I've used the Waves CLA compressors for quite a while- they are excellent.

Have people come across Cytomic's 'The Glue'?

http://www.cytomic.com/glue

This is by far the best software compressor I've used and better than many, many hardware comps.

Drew_TNBD

Yup, I've got The Glue. Fun fact, the guy who coded it used to work for FXpansion, and our BusComp plugin (which is also in BFD2/3 as well as a whole host of other plugins) is the precursor to The Glue.

Danny1969

In terms of tracking through a compressor on the way in I only generally use it to tame the very biggest peaks . Female divas seem to have the biggest range dynamically they go from barely tickling the converter to clipping it so a small touch of compression on the way in is sometimes essential

External gear certainly does make a difference. Some of the other guys here always track through their go to external preamps and EQ units and they can certainly achieve better results than I can going in clean and direct

It is a commitment though and you need to have a very good idea of the sound you want because once it's printed it's printed

Still waiting for someone to invent the external talent box

Cirrus

Danny1969 said:

Still waiting for someone to invent the external talent box

It's a shame they've already invented the antidote to it

guitarfishbay

I have not bought The Glue but I am aware of it.

Honestly I do not like the results I've had using my SM7B and Focusrite interface.  It all feels pretty stuffy pretty fast, it also doesn't help that our singer has a slightly narrow sounding voice without too much brightness to begin with.  It feels like it takes a lot of EQ to get the SM7B to sound the way I want, I have no real reference of how a better preamp would affect this.  

Since we last did some serious recording I've bought an AT4040 which seems to work a lot better in the brief tests we've done.  Again I have no reference for how a preamp would improve this, but as a base starting point I do like it.  I wouldn't want to buy another mic, if the timing lines up I could potentially borrow an AKG 414 (not sure which revision) or Rode K2, but my gut instinct is the AT4040 is already the right starting point so it doesn't feel like a priority to me.  If I couldn't borrow I wouldn't want to chance buying s/h (which would be necessary) just in case it didn't end up being used, if that makes sense.

I've been trying to find hardware vs software tests for compressors but it is always hard to believe that there isn't some kind of user bias going on.  Plus often people have put the results in the OP by the time I'm coming to read the threads, so I can't even be objective myself either.  I feel like I just need to try it myself at some point.

Drew_TNBD

Man... I could never go back to smoking the amount of weed I used to. Not since I stopped smoking it and seeing what people are actually like on it.

Fucking lazy cunt dirty hippy wankers. Gonna write some lyrics about how much I hate them.

Drew_TNBD

guitarfishbay said:

I have not bought The Glue but I am aware of it.

Honestly I do not like the results I've had using my SM7B and Focusrite interface.  It all feels pretty stuffy pretty fast, it also doesn't help that our singer has a slightly narrow sounding voice without too much brightness to begin with.  It feels like it takes a lot of EQ to get the SM7B to sound the way I want, I have no real reference of how a better preamp would affect this.  

Since we last did some serious recording I've bought an AT4040 which seems to work a lot better in the brief tests we've done.  Again I have no reference for how a preamp would improve this, but as a base starting point I do like it.  I wouldn't want to buy another mic, if the timing lines up I could potentially borrow an AKG 414 (not sure which revision) or Rode K2, but my gut instinct is the AT4040 is already the right starting point so it doesn't feel like a priority to me.  If I couldn't borrow I wouldn't want to chance buying s/h (which would be necessary) just in case it didn't end up being used, if that makes sense.

I've been trying to find hardware vs software tests for compressors but it is always hard to believe that there isn't some kind of user bias going on.  Plus often people have put the results in the OP by the time I'm coming to read the threads, so I can't even be objective myself either.  I feel like I just need to try it myself at some point.

We've got a K2 at the office, I don't really like it too much, but I've not tried it on vocals to be fair.

The SM7b is supposed to be basically the go to mic for hard rock male vocals, so I'm surprised to hear your experiences.

To be fair, I don't have much experience recording vocals, and I've only been singing a short period of time. Certainly not enough to start falling down the vocal mic+pre GAS-hole!

Cirrus

guitarfishbay;641117" said:

Honestly I do not like the results I've had using my SM7B and Focusrite interface.  It all feels pretty stuffy pretty fast, it also doesn't help that our singer has a slightly narrow sounding voice without too much brightness to begin with.  It feels like it takes a lot of EQ to get the SM7B to sound the way I want, I have no real reference of how a better preamp would affect this.  

Since we last did some serious recording I've bought an AT4040 which seems to work a lot better in the brief tests we've done...

When I record a vocalist for the first time I throw a few mics up and see what works best, every voice is different in terms of what you want to bring out or hide. It doesn't surprise me what you've found with the SM7 - my lead singer has a voice that's basically all gravel, harmonics and no fundamental so it tames it nicely. And it definitely sounded more open and lively with the LA610 than it does through my RNP! OTOH, my voice sounds like a goose farting in the fog unless I get some air out on top, so I prefer my AT4050 or C451.

Drew_TNBD

guitarfishbay said:

I have not bought The Glue but I am aware of it.

Honestly I do not like the results I've had using my SM7B and Focusrite interface.  It all feels pretty stuffy pretty fast, it also doesn't help that our singer has a slightly narrow sounding voice without too much brightness to begin with. 

RE: Brightness. He probably wants to work on his "twang". 

Basically, when you get the resonance in the throat as well as at the front of the mouth (it feels like a humming bird hovering just in front of your teeth) and when you then use fry+vocal compression (not the audio effect!) along with it, it helps to bring out brightness and brilliance.

It's also how you extend range. The first time I did this, I was in a lesson working on a line from the live version of Tool's Pushit. Check this:

Around 12:05... now for me, I can't hit those notes just yet without adding a bit of twang. But you need a bit of twang anyway, to make it cut through the guitars. The big note at 12:30 is an A3. Only two semi-tones above my highest note in my clip, which I can do fairly comfortably. So I reckon with a few tweaks I could probably hit that A3, which sounds pretty high... but again, it's about the mix voice that he's using, plus the "twang" that he's adding - some people refer to twang as 'singing from the mask' which is where your front sinuses are, just under the eyes. If you can make that part of your face vibrate very intensely, then you're singing from the mask.

Again... it's all about frontal positioning. That's been my experience anyway.

It'd be kinda cool if we could get a thread about vocal technique going, coz this is really where my learning disciplines are being invested right now. I couldn't really give a stuff about guitar at the moment, aside from playing the songs I've already written!

guitarfishbay

Pretty much as Cirrus has said. There isn't much brightness on offer with the SM7B, and the presence boost isn't necessarily the answer either (it made things worse on our singer in places). A condenser like the 4040 has more brightness to begin with but you need to tame some room reflections.

I can see why scream/growl types love the SM7B, and anyone with brightness in their voice, or if you want a smoother vocal sound. But it looks like 4040 is a better choice for us. I was definitely swayed by the Internet 'hype' to some extent, and I do think it is nice as a mic, but it isn't one size fits all for vocals IMO. I liked it on guitar cab.

Interesting mention of the C451 which is an SDC IIRC. I found that my voice is not bad through an SM81.

Drew_TNBD

guitarfishbay said:

Pretty much as Cirrus has said. There isn't much brightness on offer with the SM7B, and the presence boost isn't necessarily the answer either (it made things worse on our singer in places). A condenser like the 4040 has more brightness to begin with but you need to tame some room reflections.

I can see why scream/growl types love the SM7B, and anyone with brightness in their voice, or if you want a smoother vocal sound. But it looks like 4040 is a better choice for us. I was definitely swayed by the Internet 'hype' to some extent, and I do think it is nice as a mic, but it isn't one size fits all for vocals IMO. I liked it on guitar cab.

Interesting mention of the C451 which is an SDC IIRC. I found that my voice is not bad through an SM81.

I'd be interested in hearing some clips of the 4040.

I've pretty much decided I want to get a dedicated vocal microphone. I'm not too into the SM57a or 58's.

Mate of mine reckons I should get a condenser if I want a bit of saturation and character.