The cricket thread

Heartfeltdawn

I'm in a video mood. Best all round cricketer is easy. That backfoot shot at 1.30 is astounding. 

Best innings in my lifetime? This. Took on McGrath and Gillespie, two rather decent leg spinners, and came out on top. The cover drive at 29.50 might well be my favourite shot ever played. Now having to choose between Lara and King Viv Richards... that's a tough one

rsvmark

Thanks for the insight fellas

octatonic

I'm considering renouncing citizenship.

rsvmark

So Sky have the rest of the day to fill with assorted programming after 40 mins of play this morning!

scrumhalf

ASHES! ASHES! ASHES!

Man, that feels good. Now if only Spurs can not get tonked at Man U.

Heartfeltdawn

After the World Cup, a huge amount of shit was written in the press. Anderson and Broad were close to finished. Cook had all the captaincy elan of cement. England were awful. Post-Pietersen, even positive changes were railed against. Strauss coming into the ECB fold was viewed as another public schoolboy anti-KP appointment (I failed to read anyone mention that Pietersen himself went to a fee-paying school in South Africa). If you wanted the truly down viewpoint, we had a  shite captain, a few youngsters, no decent spinner, dudes like Bell who couldn't hack the pressure, no coach once Moores had been sacked, and a dodgy administration. 

First up, New Zealand. Brendon McCullum was being hailed as a revolutionary cricketing god. The attacking way was the way forward. NZ were described in apocalyptic terms by at least one lousy journalist. They failed to win the Test series, lost the ODI series, and we won the T20 one-off. 

How could this apparent godlike side of aggressive players lose to a feeble England team? 

Next, Australia. A pace attack to squash all comers. In Warner, the man joining T20 and Tests and showing the apparent way forward. A captain of limitless tactics. The top ranked batsman in the world. Big Mitch was ready to dish out more pain, Other Big Mitch scared the shit out of people in the World Cup, and they could even boast the best off spinner in Australian Test history. 

Fail. 3-1 England and the Oval is a dead match. Bang. The media circus that disemboweled Cook in print and Strauss within hours of his appointment have been shown to be as contemptible as the football media world. 

England aren't that much better than Australia. Since the rise of the IPL, it has been close to impossible for any one team to dominate in the manner of the 1980s West Indians or the Waugh-Ponting led Australian teams. It is unlikely any side will dominate again because the national side isn't the all-dominant focus of a lot of players (one reason why NZ will never truly dominate, not whilst important members of their side miss early tour matches because they're fucking about in Mumbai playing slap and tickle cricket). You could argue that the comparative lack of English players in the IPL helped us in Test cricket in the past. It's pertinent to note that Australia failed in this series to carry out the basics of Test cricket, of when to attack and when to defend. Of this Test just finished, 7 members of the Australian side have played in the IPL; the England equivalent reads 0.  

Was it 2005? No. It's been a series with two sides containing some good talented players, a few limited ones, and some coming to the end of their career. Entertaining it has been but not anything like ten years ago. 

Heartfeltdawn

So who will follow Clarke and CJR in the retirement stakes? 

Watson and Haddin you think will go. Mitchell J isn't getting any younger. 

England go to Abu Dhabi to face Pakistan in October for all three formats of the game. One would think that two spinners will be needed out there at some point so it would make sense to have Rashid in for Moeen if it's a one spinner pitch at the Oval. My preference would be to play both of them. I would also be tempted to rest both Root and Buttler. Both have played a lot of cricket.  Buttler was tipped for a break a few months ago post-World Cup and either a break from cricket or to go and play a few Lancashire games would do him good. Bairstow taking the gloves is no problem and it means his place for Pakistan is sorted and our second keeper situation is sorted. Root's back does seem to be getting more and more niggly and the calender for the next 18 months is mental. Any chance we get to allow him more recovery time should be used as he is an exceptional player. 

A young England man to replace Root - I'm not a huge fan of Alex Hales as I think he is limited in his ability on the legside but he is favoured in the ODI game and is probably the man who would come in if Lyth fails again and is dispensed with for the Pakistan tour. I'd drop Lyth to 3, Hales and Cook to open. We have a chance to experiment and we should use it. Hopefully the Oval will be a five day wicket as that's what we will be getting in Abu Dhabi and potentially a six man attack would be exciting. 

England Side for the Oval: 

Cook

Hales

Lyth

Bell

Bairstow

Stokes

Moeen

Rashid

Wood

Broad

Finn

(no Anderson - even if he is fit, I would give him the time off. No sense rushing back from a side injury for a dead rubber). 

scrumhalf

I don't disagree with your team, but I would offer the following:

- Lyth. Not sure he has it. We're touring SA, and I think they will see him as a walking wicket.
- Broad. I'd be tempted to give him a rest and bring in Plunkett or Foottitt.

Heartfeltdawn

Lyth is an odd one. He's very boom and bust when it comes to first-class run scoring. He should play at the Oval. Prior to the South Africa tour we have the Pakistan tour across Sharjah, Dubai and Abu Dhabi so there is time for another opener to be tried out prior to South Africa. 

Resting Broad: depends on whether England intend playing him in the ODI series and T20 match. He didn't play against NZ in the ODI series earlier in the summer. So far he's bowled 123 overs over 8 innings. At 15 overs per innings, he's not been overbowled. A seam attack of Finn, Wood, and Plunkett/Footitt would be very inexperienced and I'd want one lead seamer to play. With Anderson being wrapped in cotton wool to recover, that leaves Broad as the man of experience. Selection will obviously depend on any injuries and the only one who might be a concern is Stokes who was stretching the hamstring at Lords and at Trent Bridge. 

The last time we played Pakistan in the UAE, we played Swann and Panesar together in two of the three Tests. It makes the selection of Rashid for the Oval a no-brainer for me. He and Moeen can both bat and they offer differing styles of spin bowling. With Stokes getting the bowling back, it means we could potentially play in Pakistan with a line up like this:

Cook

Lyth or Hales or another opener

Bell

Root

Stokes

Bairstow or Buttler at 6

Moeen

Broad (the Moeen-Broad partnership down the order is one I like). 

Rashid

Wood

Anderson

 

That's a pretty decent batting lineup as Wood has shown he's no mug. 

crunchman

In my cricket watching lifetime Marshall has been the best quick bowler, and Warne the best spinner.

Going back in time, S.F. Barnes definitely has to be added to the conversation, and Bill O'Reilly as a spinner. I think Bradman was on the record as saying O'Reilly was the greatest bowler he saw.  156 wickets in 27 tests at 22.59 in an era of pretty flat pitches and an LBW law that was a lot more favourable to batsmen than it is now is pretty impressive.

It's difficult to compare quick bowlers and spinners but ultimately if I have to pick one bowler it's Warne. A spinner can keep going pretty much all day.  No matter how good a quick bowler is, you know that he's not normally going to bowl more than 6 or 7 overs in one spell.

Edit:  Other genuinely great bowlers (probably in most people's top 20 all time) in roughly chronological order that have not yet been mentioned would include Larwood, Grimmett, Lindwall, Trueman, Lillee, Hadlee, Holding, Garner, Ambrose, Wagar Younis and  Wasim Akram. For me Hadlee makes the list purely as a bowler and you could argue that the other 3 great 80's all-rounders might as well.

I do wonder what Ian Bishop could have been if he had stayed injury free.

Heartfeltdawn

^^

Bill O'Reilly and Grimmett suffer because there's so little footage available of them in action. I wish there were more of O'Reilly. This is one of the few clips online where you can see both Australian spinners together. 

People like Maurice Tate, Hirst and Rhodes, Hedley Verity, Spofforth all suffer so similar reasons. 

Ian Bishop before the injury was magnificent. 

ennspek

scrumhalf said:

ASHES! ASHES! ASHES!

Man, that feels good. Now if only Spurs can not get tonked at Man U.

We were a bit unlucky I thought. Neither side was great. I would have started Trippier mind. Back on thread what a series! I bloody love test match cricket.

Heartfeltdawn

On this current tour Shane Watson averages 163 and 36.25. Shame it's with the ball and the bat respectively.

scrumhalf

Hmm, we appear to be playing suicide cricket.

Gassage

Random story:

A mate of mine, Tom Harvey, ex Kent, played against Tino Best y'day. Tino is one of the biggest wankers in the game and loves trying to kill clubbies.

My mate (Tom) said to me today what a twat he was. Which reminded me of this little anecdote:

Tino, in the Shrops league, made the huge mistake of beaming a lad called Lol Woodhall. Lol's a tough nut. Tino smashed his hand up, and as Lol was on the floor, Tino spat on him.

As he did so, Lol's brother, who was watching, strode on to the pitch in a rather menacing fashion.

Tino said "Do you want some too then mate?"

Sadly for Tino, Lol's bro DID want some, and he wanted quite a lot. FYI, Lol's brother is called Richie Woodhall. World Supermiddleweight Champion, 26 successful title defences. It didn't last long (one mighty blow in fact) and Tino was stretchered off. A stellar moment in League cricket.

scrumhalf

Good old Shane Watson, a man with legs and feet that refuse to work properly.

He tried to kick himself after being out today. He missed.

hungrymark

Gassage;762565" said:

Random story:
A mate of mine, Tom Harvey, ex Kent, played against Tino Best y'day. Tino is one of the biggest wankers in the game and loves trying to kill clubbies.
My mate (Tom) said to me today what a twat he was. Which reminded me of this little anecdote:
Tina in the Shrops league, made the huge mistake of beaming a lad called Lol Woodhall. Lol's a tough nut. Tino smashed his hand up, and as Lolwas on the floor, Tino spat on him.
As he did so, Lol's brother, who was watching, strode on to the pitch in a rather menacing fashion.
Tiny said "Do you want some too then mate?"
Sadly for Tino, Lol's bro Did want some, and he wanted quite a lot. FYI, Lol's brother is called
Richie Woodhall. World Supermiddleweight Champion, 26 successful title defences. It didn't last long (one mighty blow in fact) and Tino was stretchered off. A stellar moment in League cricket.

Mind the windows, Tino. Couldn't take him seriously after that. If you haven't seen the video look it up on YouTube.

cj73

scrumhalf said:

Good old Shane Watson, a man with legs and feet that refuse to work properly.

He tried to kick himself after being out today. He missed.

Would he not have hit his own leg first?  

lloyd

Great innings by Buttler and a good win, not a big ODI fan but been off work with food poisoning and is much more interesting than what else is on.

scrumhalf

Nice way to start a series in South Africa, good performances pretty much all round.

Of course, given our yo-yo performances in test cricket this year we'll probably cop a shellacking in the second test.