DIY acoustic panels...

randomhandclaps

@strumjoughlamps - Canvas (as in photo canvases) work perfectly well on traps but not on reflective points. On points that are direct reflection points between your monitors and your monitoring position so the angles to either side and the ceiling above you a lack of reflectiveness is more important the deeper frequency absorption - of course you can do both at these points.

Drew_TNBD

Canvas won't work. You need breathable fabric otherwise the rockwool won't be able to do it's job. A basic cotton works the best.

randomhandclaps

It actually depends how it's mounted and the purpose of the traps. A few years back in a studio I was working in they had a fair few traps fitted that were canvas artworks (there was a company specialising in them). The key is however the were mounted with a gap being them. Hence they were traps, and used in nonreflective points, rather than dampeners. In Drew's case here they are performing both tasks so they do have to be nonreflective. However the one mounted into the corner could have a poster stuck on the front as a test and it would make no noticeable difference because the gap above, below and behind and would still allow the rockwool to absorb lower frequencies. How much though is going to be dependent on the mass and density of the rockwool rather than the covering material. A lot high end studios even go to the extent of having traps panelled in for looks and neatness and they still perfectly serve their purpose. 

One really common mistake is when people go out and buy loads of corrugated accoutic tiles. In fact the number of these anti reflectors you actually need is relative few to cover your mixing spot. By far the bigger challenge is reducing the low end build up, which is dependent on the size of the room, your position in it and the size of the monitors you are using. Most people get stuck with the smallest room in the house and unfortunately the traditional box room is the room that naturally has the most issues to conquer.

guitarfishbay

My understanding is for bass traps (i.e. Corner, not first reflection) that thicker fabric works ok. It won't absorb as high (higher frequencies would be reflected) but it will still absorb the lows. You can use insulation in its packaging and it would still trap low frequencies but the plastic wrapper would reflect highs. If the insulation is compressed (I.e. Fluffy type attic insulation) it is less efficient than if decompressed, but it still does something.

randomhandclaps

That's true. Rolls of insultation still compressed in the plastic wrapper (covered in a cheap bed sheet for a bit more presentability) work surprisingly well for the outlay and are arguable far better bass traps than most lower priced commercial ones.

Danny1969

Thicker fabric for bass traps is fine, and yeah it will absorb high frequencies ....

There's basically 3 different things to do to get a room reasonably neutral :

Bass trapping of corners ... and a room has 8 corners not 4 .... needs a mass of Rockwool and pref air behind as well

Diffusion .... reflects in a scattered than beamed effect .... you can't absorb too much or the room will sound unnatural

Absorption  ... damps a rooms reflections but needs to be done properly. Older studios in the late seventies and eighties damped the shit out their studios with carpet which leads to an unnatural sound that most people will then overtreat with fake reverb

The ceiling above you head where you mix will generally need treating as that will reflect sound back at you ... hence the acoustic tile cloud above my spot

Put some music on and walk round the room... is there more bass in certain areas than others ? can you hear certain surfaces like glass and plain plasterboard reflecting the sound ? It's all treatable but can take some time. Some rooms will be a nightmare if their dimensions are basically a rectangle with the length twice the width and a low cieling 

strumjoughlamps

ahh just being measuring up in ready for Mackie MR6mk3 delivery tomorrow and have found a flaw with the normal speaker stands.. height, they are designed for lounging on the sofa not sitting at a desk.

guitarfishbay

randomhandclaps;649626" said:

That's true. Rolls of insultation still compressed in the plastic wrapper (covered in a cheap bed sheet for a bit more presentability) work surprisingly well for the outlay and are arguable far better bass traps than most lower priced commercial ones.

My plan is to investigate clothes bins, the ones that stand up. Fill with decompressed light insulation and should be a super cheap low effort bass trap.

Something like this I guess, not given it a lot of research yet. http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B00T6EN0EY/ref=mp_s_a_1_18?qid=1432891272&sr=8-18&pi=AC_SX110_SY165&keywords=clothes+bin&dpPl=1&dpID=51BQ5Ln3YkL&ref=plSrch

Danny1969

randomhandclaps said:

That's true. Rolls of insultation still compressed in the plastic wrapper (covered in a cheap bed sheet for a bit more presentability) work surprisingly well for the outlay and are arguable far better bass traps than most lower priced commercial ones.

No, rolled insulation doesn't have the density to work as a bass trap. You need slab Rockwool at the very least

guitarfishbay

I've read so much conflicting stuff on the subject. From what I understand up to 6 inch definitely Rockwool, at deeper (annoyingly can't find the definitive 'switch' point) you can use lighter insulation. I've seen light fluffy recommended for 12 inch traps for example.

guitarfishbay

Here's one link - Glenn Kuras owns GIK acoustics and says 12 inch light fluffy works.

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/studio-building-acoustics/687822-does-fluffy-rockwoll-work-well-bass-trapping.html

randomhandclaps

Danny1969 said:

randomhandclaps said:

That's true. Rolls of insultation still compressed in the plastic wrapper (covered in a cheap bed sheet for a bit more presentability) work surprisingly well for the outlay and are arguable far better bass traps than most lower priced commercial ones.

No, rolled insulation doesn't have the density to work as a bass trap. You need slab Rockwool at the very least

It does, provided it packed and compressed. It can be used like rockwool there and you have to be careful as some places like B&Q sell cheaper alternatives to rockwool slabs which have nowhere near the density.

Phil_aka_Pip

Most of what I record is not via a microphone. I haven't noticed in the past that natural room acoustics have adversely affect the way I mix things, but am willing to accept the theoretical possibility. I now have a different room - it's bigger by an extra metre in each direction, and there's a bigger area of glass window down one wall, but there are curtains to cover it. I'm almost about to start using the place. I don't know yet if I'm going to discover that acoustic treatment will be a perceived necessity. Any opinions?

Danny1969

For DIY recording most of the time you don't need any treatment, as a lot of the time you won't be recording real drums, guitars are often DI'ed likewise bass guitar and certainty keys. Ugly reflections can spoil vocal recordings.... especially if your using a nice detailed mic but it's not hard to build your own booth for vocals. Ours is homemade and we've tracked everything from actresses being killed for computer games to Nashville country artist in it. And a lot of rap ..... so much rap  

Mixing wise low frequencies will build up and return to you mix point. Anything in phase will get louder, anything out of phase will be attenuated. It's more complicated than that but basically it's hard to judge the bass in a room that hasn't been treated. Even putting on a reference track won't help unless the track contains every single bass note .... So in general we bass trap the corners and some walls until things are under control

Reflections from plasterboard \ glass and some other surfaces can be ugly and again will stop you hearing things accurately. Again it's not crucial though if your not mixing on a commercial basis. Getting a room under control is quick time consuming and difficult. And people don't consider acoustic treatment to be a sexy upgrade ... often preferring to spend money on better speakers. The treatment in our room cost about twice what we paid for our speakers but was worth it I think

Drew_TNBD

Danny1969 said:

 we've tracked everything from actresses being killed

How'd you get away with that!?!?

Drew_TNBD

Phil_aka_Pip said:

Most of what I record is not via a microphone. I haven't noticed in the past that natural room acoustics have adversely affect the way I mix things, but am willing to accept the theoretical possibility. I now have a different room - it's bigger by an extra metre in each direction, and there's a bigger area of glass window down one wall, but there are curtains to cover it. I'm almost about to start using the place. I don't know yet if I'm going to discover that acoustic treatment will be a perceived necessity. Any opinions?

It's definitely a necessity for anyone recording and mixing imho. The amount of treatment will vary from room to room, but you definitely want to try and tame reflections.

Danny1969

Drew_fx said:

Danny1969 said:

 we've tracked everything from actresses being killed

How'd you get away with that!?!?

Lol, yeah well luckily the only witnesses were me, the creative directer and the producer and we can all keep a dark secret

IanSavage

Danny1969 said:

Bass trapping of corners ... and a room has 8 corners not 4 ....

[fuckingirritatingpedant] Actually, 12, usually. [/fuckingirritatingpedant]

Phil_aka_Pip

@Danny1969 @Drew_fx fanx, gents. We will see how things go

strumjoughlamps

IanSavage said:

Danny1969 said:

Bass trapping of corners ... and a room has 8 corners not 4 ....

[fuckingirritatingpedant] Actually, 12, usually. [/fuckingirritatingpedant]

smash the alcove down, go on, SMASH IT......