Looking To Buy a Gibson Les Paul - help!

smudge_lad

Hey guys,

Looking for a little help and guidance on what I should be looking out for when researching a purchase of a Gibson Les Paul. I've been playing an Epi LP Special Edt since 1999, which is a great guitar, but recently purchased a Gibson ES-339 and have been blown away by the quality of the instrument, even compared to my USA Tele - it's just awesome.

So, I've decided I really need to get my hands on a Gibson Les Paul too, but I'm not really sure where to start, what to look out for and what to avoid. I always see people with gripes about this year's model or that year's model, and while I never seem to be overly bothered by things like neck profile/thickness/shape etc, it would still be helpful to have a good starting point. I don't know the difference between a "standard" or a "traditional" or even what the big jump then is to the R models.

I always thought that I'd buy brand new when I did get round to buying one, and I'm not ruling this out with a deposit/finance option, but I see what I think are lot of really good prices for some great condition 2nd hand guitars as well, but as above, not really sure what I should be possibly avoiding.

Any info would be greatly appreciated!

Cheers

Keir

TinLip

Start here!

http://www2.gibson.com/News-Lifestyle/Features/en-us/weight-relief-gibson-les-paul-guitars-0615-2012.aspx

Lescaster

I'd seriously look into finding a secondhand R8 or try to find a new old stock 2013/14. You'll have a classic looking, feeling and sounding, quality Les Paul which you'll happily keep for a lifetime.

Parker

....and then buy my Traditional in the Classifieds! #

In all seriousness, get yourself down to a Gibson dealer (ideally an established one with a supply of S/H models too) and get your hands on a few necks. Every one has its own character, feel, top, resonance. I went through a carton of them in PMT to buy my original Traditional. I was about to walk out and then found 'the one'.

Lescaster

Yeah good point Parker. The key with Gibson is to find the model you like and then play everyone you can get your hands on because each one is different.

Funnily enough i did the same thing at PMT as Parker for my trad pro 2. They requested all the honey bursts from each of their stores and had them delivered to the one closest to me to try each of them and find the one I liked the most

Kuroblack

The general advice is to try as many as you can, to get an idea of the feel of the things. There are many combinations of neck sizes/types, weight relief (modern and old school) and the specs have changed (mostly subtly) over the years. One thing I personally found early on was that there are no rules – insofar as, older doesn’t always mean better, the quality isn’t always appalling, the Standard might not be the holy grail etc.

You can also watch thousands of youtube vids – the more recent ones with Gibson’s Jim Decola (spelling?) are quite cool and take you through the recent changes. There’s also a good Andertons/Chappers vid of about 50mins playing most of the stuff from the 2015 line up.

If you can hack it for long enough, ‘mylespaul’ is a decent source of online info, particularly the sticky info threads

There are also a few reviews on here (mine among them) although everybody has a different view, so take them as just that!

Or, you can do what I did – research the hell out of it, every website, every video. Read as much as you can, use mylespaul and then completely ignore it all and go with what tugs a heart string and feels/plays right…

Chalky

Purely from a 'good buy' point of view, try out a 60s Tribute model and a Standard and see which one floats your boat more for your money. If you buy a Tribute for 500 or less or a Standard for 1200 or less than you will probably make your money back when you come to sell it.

Don't analyse or rely on Youtube - really a waste of months of your life compared to 20 mins in a good guitar shop

crunchman

Chalky said:

Don't analyse or rely on Youtube - really a waste of months of your life compared to 20 mins in a good guitar shop

Very true

slacker

Last year I was looking to upgrade my 2004 LP Classic. When I bought it I tried 8 LP Classics in Coda and they were all IMHO different (sound, weight, etc). So when I went to upgrade I tried just about everything (LP standards, R6 R8 R9, Red Eye, Rosie, STP and the Duane Allman).

In the end I had Lollars put in my Classic and am happy.

So my advice is to try as many as you can regardless of price and get an accurate opinion of what you want and what you dont. I nearly pulled the trigger on an R8 but it was 2k plus my Classic and I balked at that. The R's and Collectors are lovely guitars and one can be seduced by all the flame etc but at the end of the day you have to choose something you and your wallet are happy with.

p90fool

First you need to decide what spec is important to you, then stick the list on here so we can point out which models comply with it.

terada

Ok so a basic overview of the line-up...

The Juniors are at the bottom of the range, have simple controls and a single p90 (theres also double cut with twin pups). 

From there the next cheapest models are the studios. These are essentially the same guitars as the standards, minus all the bling. 

From this point all the guitars have binding (which is an expensive production process), and the deluxes and traditionals are the next in the range. The deluxes have mini humbuckers, and a boost switch, while the traditionals are meant to be a nod back to pails of old. These have the standard control layout (no switching/coil taps etc) and have solid unchambered bodies.

The next models up are the standards. These have all sorts of wizardry underneath the standard looking control layouts, and have modern features such as asymmetric necks etc. 

Gibson do also do limited runs from time to time, such as the trad pro IIs, but these are not part of the standard range so I'll leave them for you to search for yourself (basically they are when stores order a limited run of guitars with features that they specifically want).

Moving beyond here takes you into custom shop territory, where there are loads of options. The main ones however used to be the reissue series, where the custom shop tries to accurately reproduce les pauls based on various years of the 50's and 60's. When you read R8, R9 R0 etc people are actually referring to Reissue of a 1958/ 1959/ 1960 Les Paul etc. Of these, the most expensive is the R9. These guitars are all of very high quality, have chunky necks, solid bodies that tend to be quite light. For 2015 Gibson have changed the custom shop lineup, where they have basically just doubled the price and called the reissues 'true historic', and below those offered more generic vintagy models at the same price point as the full fat 2014 reissues. 

Things you might read about les pails:

Neck tenons. People get really worked up about these, its basically the way that the neck is attached to the body. Vintage Les Pauls had long reck tenons which apparently encourage the whole guitar to be more resonant. Only custom shop guitars have this feature (and only true historics from 2015 onwards).

Hide Glue. This is another thing that people get hot under the collar about! Basically all about what type of glue is used for various parts of the production process. I honestly have no idea whether it makes a difference or not.

Weight relief. Over the years the mahogany that gibson have used to make guitars has in general, got heavier. To counter this weight, Gibson has used various methods of weight relief. The custom shop models don't have weight relief, but use more expensive, lighter mahogany to keep the guitars weight under control. USA line les pauls have various styles of weight relief, the best way to understand the differences is to have a look at this pic:

In general, its best to try as many as you can. As such, I have only bought lesters after trying loads of the same model. This is because a number of features on a les paul (such as the neck), are hand finished, so all of them are slightly different.

Also, people often make the point that gibsons' quality control is poor. I've played hundreds of les pauls, and I have come across a few that were less than spectacular, but in general they are really great guitars (even at the cheaper end of the range).

Finally I'll say this, if you have a particular dream les paul in mind, then wait until you can afford that particular one. Otherwise you'll end up like me, going through the expensive process of buying a few lesters before finally getting the one you always wanted in the first place. 

mudslide73

Great summary @terada ;

underdog

And accept that while you may have your heart set on a standard it may not play as well as a lower model (studio) you try in the shop. I know so many people who went to buy a full fat LP and left with a studio.

Though in my experience the standards are great for the most part.

aspnet

underdog said:

And accept that while you may have your heart set on a standard it may not play as well as a lower model (studio) you try in the shop. I know so many people who went to buy a full fat LP and left with a studio.

Though in my experience the standards are great for the most part.

Exactly what happened to me :-)

rocktron

So Dudes, after you have tried quite a few LPs in the shops, and selected "the one" for you, what is your verdict on the ones left behind.  Did they not sound superb enough for an LP, or did they just not feel right in your hands, but may very well suit someone else?

The thing I am trying to establish, is whether the guitars you left behind were just poor examples, OR whether they were fine guitars, but just not the right one for you, personally. It could be how their necks felt, whether they did not have the characteristic sound of an good quality LP, too heavy perhaps, etc.

The first thing I see about an LP is the quality of the wood-grain, whether the two halves are book-matched, the overall quality of construction, and whether there are any blemishes. The rest is entirely subjective, but an experienced friend may point out that it may, or may not be the best one available in the store on pure sound. 

I understand that they all sound differently - but how big is that variance?

You see, someone may have to buy the guitars left behind, and they may not necessarily be getting the best one from the batch in the store.

So, at what point, having tried a few, do you walk away, or grab the best one?     

p90fool

It's overrated. I tried over 25 Les Paul Standards and Traditionals in three different shops and never found a dud.
I later ordered one online and it was as good as any of them - good enough in fact to make most of my other guitars redundant.

The post above which outlines the general range differences is good, but in general more absolute bollocks is talked about Les Pauls then any other guitar.

Decide what you want and either go to a shop or order one from somewhere - they're damn good guitars and on countless famous records and pro stages for a reason.

fretfinder

Does your 339 have a 50s or 60s neck profile? Whichever one it is, if you like it, that's the neck profile to look for in a Les Paul. If you had a fat neck 339 and bought a slim taper neck Les Paul, they would feel very different indeed to play.

slacker

When I bought my Classic, Coda had a sale on and had about 8-9 and IMHO there were differences in weight which eliminated some, sound, which eliminated more, tuning. more etc. In the end I had once guitar that 'spoke to me'. If I had only tried one I might have bought it. However I was directly comparing guitars. 

When I went to upgrade I had my guitar to compare the others to. IMHO the Rs and Collectors were not worth the cash I would have to add. Yes some were better. Rosie was very nice. etc. 

BTW A friend of mine has a 56 Custom that is the best guitar I have ever played and probably will ever played. I dont want to spend 20k on a guitar. 

THere becomes a point where you are paying for diminishing returns. 

YMMV

terada

rocktron said:

So Dudes, after you have tried quite a few LPs in the shops, and selected "the one" for you, what is your verdict on the ones left behind.  Did they not sound superb enough for an LP, or did they just not feel right in your hands, but may very well suit someone else?

The thing I am trying to establish, is whether the guitars you left behind were just poor examples, OR whether they were fine guitars, but just not the right one for you, personally. It could be how their necks felt, whether they did not have the characteristic sound of an good quality LP, too heavy perhaps, etc.

The first thing I see about an LP is the quality of the wood-grain, whether the two halves are book-matched, the overall quality of construction, and whether there are any blemishes. The rest is entirely subjective, but an experienced friend may point out that it may, or may not be the best one available in the store on pure sound. 

I understand that they all sound differently - but how big is that variance?

You see, someone may have to buy the guitars left behind, and they may not necessarily be getting the best one from the batch in the store.

So, at what point, having tried a few, do you walk away, or grab the best one?     

There's no doubt that Les Pauls conjure up plenty of reactions/comments, and @p90fool is right that much of this can often be less than satisfactory/useful.

In addition, due to their high cost and instrument to instrument variance, there is perhaps more scope for discussion with Les Pauls than some other guitars. Then theres the fact that it's one of the most recognised guitars in the world, so proportionally it should be expected that you'll hear a lot about them. Once you add in the ridiculous money vintage examples go for, its clear why there is you such potential for a online sandpit in which everyone is shouting each other!

To keep it all simple, as I said above, I have played hundreds of lesters, I own three that span the entire range (studio/traditional/R8), and I have played very few that I would call duds.

Remember that what makes a guitar good (all instruments really) is incredibly subjective, and the simple truth is that when it comes to les pauls, there are many things that vary between examples than for many other guitars. 

For most guitars for example, the neck is machined to very stringent tolerances. Gibson les pauls are hand finished, and can vary wildly. In this case neither are wrong, but you may have to try 5 or 6 before you find one that is just right.

In the case of the les paul, this also applies to the following:

- Rim burst/teardrop burst/somewhere between the two

- plaintop/flametop

- the look of the flame itself

- slight differences in how the bursts are finished.

- neck shape/size

- weight of the body (can vary quite significantly)

Now for all of the above, there is no right or wrong answer, its all personal opinion. But all of these vary body for body.

With this in mind then, say your looking for a heavy les paul with a slightly flat d shape neck, with a subtle flame in cherry burst, you've already factored in 4 subjective parameters! So it might take you a while to find it!

That said, you might go in looking for the above guitar, and find a goldtop that just 'fits'. So thats why its best just to go out and play as many as you can!

RMJ

Buy the best you can afford. In my case that was a traditional and I love it very much

rocktron

First of all, let me apologise to the OP - I didn't mean to hijack your thread. 

Thanks All for your replies. Very instructive in selecting an LP, and thanks for the edification. I think I'm more clued up now than when I first started my post in this thread.