Jack plugs - is there a decent economy alternative to Neutrik?

Megii

I have a 3m guitar lead I made up, using Klotz AC 110 cable (chosen for it's low capacitance) - the Rean brand jack plugs I used have proved not reliable enough under gigging conditions - they are these ones fwiw: http://www.audiospares.com/product.php?productid=2076&cat=754&page=5

Anyway, I find the issue with the Rean jacks is that the cable is not held securely inside the plug (just the usual thin metal stem with tabs that you crip around the insulation) and this allows things to move a bit, and eventually the connection to the centre pin fails. So I'm thinking I should use something more like a proper, full-on Neutrik jack plug, with it's efficient plastic chuck clamping system. Except, when you look at the cost of buying a couple of Neutrik jack plugs, it seems like it doesn't cost a lot more to buy a decent pre-made guitar cable, ready fitted with Neutrik jacks. So, I figure unless there actually is a good, low cost alternative to Neutrik, I'm probably better off just buying a new cable. But, just in case there's anything out there, I thought I'd at least ask the question, cheers!

ThePrettyDamned

I agree, it doesn't.

They are the best. Just buy premade ones from kabl. I can make cables up myself cheaper, and have materials to do so, but once they're done I'm going for him. His cables cost little more than it is to buy the materials and are very professionally made.

Neutrik jacks just done fail. The ones with the silent switching have done for me, though only once. I still use one and it's been going for a few years.

Megii

ThePrettyDamned said:

I agree, it doesn't.

They are the best. Just buy premade ones from kabl. I can make cables up myself cheaper, and have materials to do so, but once they're done I'm going for him. His cables cost little more than it is to buy the materials and are very professionally made.

Neutrik jacks just done fail. The ones with the silent switching have done for me, though only once. I still use one and it's been going for a few years.

I guess you're right - it's what I suspected. I think rather than throw the cable away, I'll fix it with whatever cheap jacks I can find, and keep it purely as a back up, or for careful home use. OK, it won't handle repeated gigging, but it won't be entirely a waste at least.

Cables does seem to be an area where there isn't any point penny-pinching. Also I'm certain the man at Kabl has far superior construction/soldering skills to mine, and of course that's worth something as well - all told, it makes it look a bit daft for me to be faffing around making up my own cables.

Danny1969

The Neutrik 1\4 mono jacks are only £2 each and decent cable is only about 50p a metre ..  so making your own decent guitar lead still comes in at less than a tenner for a 5 metre or so. So not worth scrimping on the jacks 

Megii

Danny1969 said:

The Neutrik 1\4 mono jacks are only £2 each and decent cable is only about 50p a metre ..  so making your own decent guitar lead still comes in at less than a tenner for a 5 metre or so. So not worth scrimping on the jacks 

Cheers - I think we can definitely agree it's not worth scrimping on the jacks. The cheapest I seem to be able to find Neutrik jacks at is £2.40 plus a quid postage - so I'd be looking at £6 ish to fix my cable  - I guess maybe that's worth doing. But interested if you know anywhere cheaper.

Re the cost of decent cable, I once used some Lynx cable from Audio Spares, which was around 50p a metre and I have to say I thought it was pretty rubbish - even a carefully made 3 metre lead seemed to sap a lot of treble, and the sound became dull and lifeless. It was described as "very low capacitance" as well, but they didn't quote a figure, so I guess that phrase could mean anything. Anyway, that experience has put me off cheaper cable tbh - maybe I was unlucky, but I now tend to think a good quality, low capacitance cable (say less than 90pF a metre) is worth paying a bit more for.

And really, when I consider the faff for me to solder the cable myself, plus the fact that I don't have the soldering skill and know-how of a professional cable maker, I think my cable-making days are pretty much over... Of course that's just my own situation, YMMV as they say.

FelineGuitars

Having spent this afternoon making patch cables with Whirlwind cable and Neutrik plugs I would advise using proper Neutrik plugs.

For the sake of a quid extra you get a plug that will last ages and stay working well , which the copies don't.

Klotz is good cable , so get a pair of great plugs on and don't look back.

So ok - it's the price of a pint but a pint is quickly forgotten once the evening is done but a decent cable should last you years

Megii

FelineGuitars said:

Having spent this afternoon making patch cables with Whirlwind cable and Neutrik plugs I would advise using proper Neutrik plugs.

For the sake of a quid extra you get a plug that will last ages and stay working well , which the copies don't.

Klotz is good cable , so get a pair of great plugs on and don't look back.

So ok - it's the price of a pint but a pint is quickly forgotten once the evening is done but a decent cable should last you years

Yes - of course it's true when you put it like that - it just annoys me that I already wasted money buying cheaper jacks. But as you say, it's decent wire, and will be a good lead if I just stump up the bit extra for Neutrik plugs. There is this stupid penny-pinching bit of me that I sometimes need to ignore - good value does not always equal the cheapest option.

FelineGuitars

Buy cheap = buy twice!

Megii

FelineGuitars said:

Buy cheap = buy twice!

Been there, and got the T-shirt!

ecc83

You can improve the cheaper plugs a great deal. The cord grip issue is fixed by 50mm or so of heat shrink sleeving  which both locks the cable and acts as a strain relief. Also put a blob of nail varnish on the centre rod nut, often these come loose.

But! I agree, these techniques are only worth the bother if you need a shedload of cables. For a gig lead pay for Nukes or, better still pay Kabl.

For cable I have always used good quality balanced mic cable. The "cold" core is tied to screen both ends and just the hot for the signal. This gives a low capacitance cable and one with less klunky microphonics.

Dave.

Megii

ecc83 said:

You can improve the cheaper plugs a great deal. The cord grip issue is fixed by 50mm or so of heat shrink sleeving  which both locks the cable and acts as a strain relief. Also put a blob of nail varnish on the centre rod nut, often these come loose.

But! I agree, these techniques are only worth the bother if you need a shedload of cables. For a gig lead pay for Nukes or, better still pay Kabl.

For cable I have always used good quality balanced mic cable. The "cold" core is tied to screen both ends and just the hot for the signal. This gives a low capacitance cable and one with less klunky microphonics.

Dave.

All true I'm sure, and worth saying, cheers Dave. However, I guess I don't need a shed load of cables, so I think I'll take the easy route and spend a fiver or so for a couple of Neutriks to fix my Klotz AC 110 lead. And thereafter, I'll just go to the likes of Kabl I reckon.

ICBM

There is no sensible substitute for Neutrik plugs just as there is no sensible substitute for Switchcraft sockets for guitars - they're so far superior to even the nearest similar-looking alternative that the small price difference is irrelevant in my opinion.

For speaker cables in particular the solid single-piece construction of the straight Neutriks can prevent an expensive amp repair too - weaker and less well-designed plugs can fall apart leaving an open circuit. I wouldn't use anything else for a gigging speaker cable.

Megii

ICBM said:

There is no sensible substitute for Neutrik plugs just as there is no sensible substitute for Switchcraft sockets for guitars - they're so far superior to even the nearest similar-looking alternative that the small price difference is irrelevant in my opinion.

For speaker cables in particular the solid single-piece construction of the straight Neutriks can prevent an expensive amp repair too - weaker and less well-designed plugs can fall apart leaving an open circuit. I wouldn't use anything else for a gigging speaker cable.

Well, not that you need any more, but have a wisdom for that @ICBM - it is possible I will be using an extension cab with my amp in the near future, so that will be borne very much in mind. Anyway, the resounding answer to the title question of this seems to be a "no".

BigMonka

Megii said:

FelineGuitars said:

Buy cheap = buy twice!

Been there, and got the T-shirt!

I ended up buying two T-shirts  :-<  

BigMonka

Danny1969 said:

The Neutrik 1\4 mono jacks are only £2 each and decent cable is only about 50p a metre ..  so making your own decent guitar lead still comes in at less than a tenner for a 5 metre or so. So not worth scrimping on the jacks 

@Danny1969 which cable are you getting for 50p a metre? I was looking at van damme stuff the other day and couldn't find it for less than £1/m

IanSavage

Megii said:

 

Yes - of course it's true when you put it like that - it just annoys me that I already wasted money buying cheaper jacks.

You can always hold onto the cheaper ones for use in footswitches or something else non-critical.

Megii

IanSavage said:

Megii said:

 

Yes - of course it's true when you put it like that - it just annoys me that I already wasted money buying cheaper jacks.

You can always hold onto the cheaper ones for use in footswitches or something else non-critical.

Yep, fair point. Anyway, about to order a couple of straight Neutrik NP2X jacks - Audio Spares actually seems to be about the cheapest place I can find (works out just under £6 including postage).

SHOOTOUT

G&H/Switchcraft/Neutrik all very good.

Many other units may seem solid but they are still made of multiple components and unless made to exacting tolerances can start to wobble about and then there is the plating. To look to keep costs down I tried a box load of OEM Asian pancake jacks marketed in the USA that weren't Switchcraft and easier to solder. 60% had terrible plating and were unusable. I had previously looked at a German OEM version of basically the same factory's output so far as I can tell, and had similar issues on the few I looked at. If people want dodgy crap there is plenty of it about to buy, not my scene.

Just avoid any jack plugs with gold plating. Completely pointless and risks galvanic corrosion with your nickel plated guitar equipment jack sockets. Gold plating is part of the cable fairy snake oil mixture...

Guitar Cable Myths and The Cable Fairy

Also both traditional jack plugs (Switchcraft/G&H) and the more modern design screw down ones (Neutrik) have 'strain relief' that is a huge weakness in the assembly method. Heatshrink that isn't glued also achieves very little. It doesn't take a lot of effort to pull a cable through a jack plug when it isn't soldered even with a good length of unglued heatshrink. Good for cable sales though when they fail at the solder joins.

Re: the Klotz, yes a pretty good low capacitance lead however it has solid PE insulation and all in it's rather a stiff cable and doesn't handle too well. Had some sample but Sommer make better, and also a lower capacitance cable. Both Sommer Spirit XXL and Sommer Spirit LLX are top cables, the latter is lowest capacitance on the market and handles superbly.

Cheers,

Marc, Director

Shootout Guitar Cables UK

Rocker

@Megii, if you use a decent guitar and a decent amp, connect them with a decent cable. Or a wireless transmitter. Repair your faulty cables for home use and mark them clearly. Playing guitar is hard enough without a dodgy cable adding to your difficulties.

Megii

Appreciate the information @SHOOTOUT - I have looked at your website with interest, and it looks like you are doing some very good stuff, we could well be doing business in the future I would think. I do like that you are using the Sommer LLX cable - the only place that is from what I can tell.

. @Rocker - cheers, and of course you're absolutely correct - there will be no dodgy cables for me in the future I assure you, the Klotz cable I have should actually make a very decent, gig-worthy cable when fitted with the Neutrik plugs that are on their way to me.