Les Paul Recording ~ ~ ~ fascinating . . .

ChrisMusic

Thanks for the picture @Skipped, I would almost be tempted too (apart from being about $50k short of that), oh, and Les had more than one or two in his collection.  

You are right, it certainly seems a more manageable layout.

Nice post @Fretwired, I had been wondering about that guitar for a while.  Do you happen to know if it is the same one he had back in '72 / '73 ?  I am assuming that it is certainly the one I saw with a Stetsbar on from a few years back.  Stunning desert burst (I presume), and I love the way the burst goes up around the selector.

Put me out of my misery about the model and history, and how he has wired it up too, if you would be so kind.  And do you know how he sets them up, sounds like very, very low action, presumably light strings, and the black beauty looks as if the neck has been re-profiled, god I am curious.

Yes @Mosfed , a lot of that was news to me too, the major reason I put "fascinating" into the title of this discussion, there was so much more than just the Recording, nice bit of history.

ICBM

ChrisMusic said:

ICBM, what did the electrics side of the LP SIgnature have that made it so special sonically.

The controls are thinned down over those on the recording, what was the secret ?

Re-createable for a project maybe ?

Difficult. The pickups are low-impedance, even though they look more like standard humbuckers than the ones in the Recording. The real key is the audio auto-transformer which takes the low impedance and makes it high - but the transformer has three taps which greatly affect the power and tone of the output, from deep, clean and clear to loud, midrangy and aggressive. The other rotary switch is simply a phase switch, and there's an overall master volume and tone control.

The basic guitar is quite different from other Gibson semis too - it looks like a 330 with the deep-set neck, with a Les Paul treble cutaway to give better top-end access, but despite the stop tailpiece there is no full centre block like a 335, just a fairly small bock under the bridge and tailpiece, which makes it somehow more like a cross between a 330 and a 175 tonally.

It's really a very unusual guitar, and I'd *maybe* think about another one if I could find one with a neck I liked… although I have to say the whole experience has rather scared me off buying expensive guitars.

johnnyurq

Wot @ICBM says and the earlier models had an external transformer which was a PITA by all accounts.

Apologies up front I have owned a 1971/1972 LPR for many years and I am a bit of geek about it . But it is flat out the best guitar I have ever owned. I am lucky because the neck profile fits my hand perfectly which has some bearing on it.

It has some wonderful tones available and with EQ and FX tweaks can get a huge range of different types of guitar tones from pseudo thin single coil to fat as fook.

The low impedance mode is great for recording direct to desk and re-amp for FX plus for driving amps clean and adding stompies or Multi FX got from mild OD to aggressive metal. Being low impedance the resulting noise was way quieter than any other guitar I have owned.

In the 80's I had it through a Boss ME-5 into a JCM800 2 X 12" combo and it sounded glorious for any genre or style, funk tones ahoy too.

Anyway here are some piccies and a link to more pics and info for anyone interested.

My one first, a bit worse for wear these days but the volute saved it on many an occasion/gig.

http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i474/johnnyurq/Gibson LPR/LPR2_zps4d2523dd.jpg

http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i474/johnnyurq/Gibson LPR/Bodymarks_zps2da48851.jpg

These guys cannot be wrong surely? ;0

http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i474/johnnyurq/Gibson LPR/DSC00110_zpsbae8b41d.jpg

http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i474/johnnyurq/Gibson LPR/PageyWhiteLPR_zpsbdd0700c.jpg

johnnyurq

Some general info on it's mystery's.

http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i474/johnnyurq/Gibson LPR/4-07-P1X_zps30a1e67a.gif

http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i474/johnnyurq/Gibson LPR/lpr_ad_3as_zps2d4e6842.jpg

http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i474/johnnyurq/Gibson LPR/lpr_ad_4as_zps1b44ff29.jpg

http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i474/johnnyurq/Gibson LPR/lpr_ad2_4a_zps986b04d1.jpg

http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i474/johnnyurq/Gibson LPR/LPR1_zpsb2a57799.jpg

johnnyurq

They came with a flexi disk with Les Paul demonstrating the tones and a lick or two in context. Mine is long gone but I have MP3's I made from it years ago.

Les Paul used the Recording and to a lesser extent the Personal for a long time as they were his tech babies, his have had various mods like a bigsby, mic input on the upper bout and a sound on sound device he designed and fitted.

He used them a lot at the Iridium club and had a few including a White one that sold at the auction after his death.

Anyway here is a link to all my photos and goodies on the LPR range. There are fair few and a mixed bag and possibly boring for those not keen on them.

http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i474/johnnyurq/Gibson LPR/wires204_zps7cd80932.jpg

http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/johnnyurq/media/Gibson LPR/wires204_zps7cd80932.jpg.html?sort=3&o=0

Any questions @ChrisMusic give us a shout and I will do my best to answer.

Oops edit to add Photobucket link

randomhandclaps

johnnyurq said:

http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i474/johnnyurq/Gibson%20LPR/PageyWhiteLPR_zpsbdd0700c.jpg

Just for clarification - that guy who looks like an extra from an 80's Starship video used to be in the rock goliath that was Led Zeppelin.  Who'd have thunk it?

Skipped

Forum members who are old enough will remember that that Ibanez produced a very nice copy of both the Recording and Professional models. I found these much more appealing than the (early) attempts to copy GTs and Customs.

ICBM

What I find frustrating about the Recording is that if they'd made it *look* right, it might have had a chance of being successful - but I suspect most players couldn't get past the appearance.

Re-imagine it this way:

Standard-size maple-cap body like a proper Les Paul.

Low impedance pickups which look like standard humbuckers. (Easy, the rectangular Signature ones aren't too far off.)

Rear-routed control cavity like a proper Les Paul.

Four knobs and the switch arranged like a proper Les Paul.

Mini-switches just above the knobs like a Les Paul Artist.

Jacks on the side like a proper Les Paul.

Functionality - exactly the same as a LPR. Appearance - (almost) exactly the same as a conventional Les Paul.

Like that, I think it could have been a great commercial success.

Come to think of it... why don't they do that now?

monquixote

How hard would it be to make some Low Impedance pickups?

Is it something that you could commission a custom winder like Ash to do?

johnnyurq

@randomhandclaps

Well it was the 80's and my hair was nowt to be proud of either, damn the power pop era! 

@Skipped

Yes I owned one for a while before a mate prised it out of my hands, they were not too bad and were quite expensive at the time. The biggest difference was a bolt on neck.

@ICBM

Having gotten used to the quirkiness I am OK with the weirdness.

But I agree it would have been more of a success if they were a bit more conservative with the looks etc. I used to know the sales figures for the UK and worldwide and they were fairly low, especially here.

Personally I would love to see a new re-imagined version based on a LP Supreme, Dark Fire or a LPC variant (white natch).

Please can we just make it after HJ the dictator has left, oh and add robo tuners too with some of the better elements of the Dark Fire and Dusk Tiger tech.

ICBM

monquixote said:

How hard would it be to make some Low Impedance pickups?

Is it something that you could commission a custom winder like Ash to do?

If he could get the spec for the magnets, wire gauge and number of turns, certainly - the technology is exactly the same as for a high-impedance pickup. The slight difficulty is that Gibson resin-potted the originals, so dismantling a dead one to measure it might be tricky.

Getting an audio transformer made to the right spec shouldn't be too hard either - although it's unlikely to be an off-the-shelf item.

Just more difficult than recreating 'standard' electrics.

johnnyurq

monquixote;69170" said:

How hard would it be to make some Low Impedance pickups?Is it something that you could commission a custom winder like Ash to do?

That is a very interesting idea indeed and I would love to hear from the pickup dudes like Ash what is involved.

I like the pickups so much i would definitely use them in my other guitars.

It is remarkable that a guitar that is 41 years old and the electrics are in great shape and quiet as a mouse, I did over the years spray the elctrics with switch cleaner/switch lube which maybe helped, But it was only a handful of times over my ownership and was preventative rather than because of an issue.

When I was last inside the control cavity everything did seem to be over engineered for sure.

JayGee

Skipped said:

Forum members who are old enough will remember that that Ibanez produced a very nice copy of both the Recording and Professional models. I found these much more appealing than the (early) attempts to copy GTs and Customs.

I had one of these for a while somewhere around 1977/8 - fantastic piece of kit, lovely to play, a staggering range of sounds, and (if that sort of thing bothered you, which as a teenager it did to me...) you were guaranteed never to turn up for a gig and find someone else using the same guitar.

Really, really, really wish I still owned it and if one turned up at the right time and at the right price I'd buy it like a shot. 

Kind of hard work for live use though as it needed about 4 switches and 4 knobs to be in the right place to get a given sound and being one position out on any of them could have unsettling results...

Fretwired

@ChrisMusic as @ICBM has stated the Les Paul Personal is very different beast from the standard Les Paul. Jan liked the sound of a Strat [he had a Tele] but didn't like the control layout or the neck. He bought a Les Paul Custom into which he fitted a Gretsch pickup in the bridge position and used a Color Sound treble booster to get his unique tone in Focus.

He then picked up a Les Paul Personal but didn't like the tone so he got Paul Hamer to take the pickups off, fit a new maple cap and fitted the pickups out of his Les Paul Custom. He liked the fact the guitar was longer and wider than his Custom but lighter. He played it for a few years and then 'lost' it. Apparently he'd given it to a luthier and forgotten to collect it.

When he got his hands on it the pickups were missing and the top had split along with the binding .. I have some pictures somewhere. He then got a new maple top fitted and had it reconfigured with three Gibson humbuckers like a Black Beauty. The action is low and he uses thin strings - 8s in the 70s but 9s last time I had a strum. He had a Stetsbar fitted and then removed it.

He plays his Les Paul Custom these days.

This is him playing the refinished Les Paul Personal in the 70's

johnnyurq

ICBM;69179" said:

monquixote said:

How hard would it be to make some Low Impedance pickups?Is it something that you could commission a custom winder like Ash to do?





If he could get the spec for the magnets, wire gauge and number of turns, certainly - the technology is exactly the same as for a high-impedance pickup. The slight difficulty is that Gibson resin-potted the originals, so dismantling a dead one to measure it might be tricky.

Getting an audio transformer made to the right spec shouldn't be too hard either - although it's unlikely to be an off-the-shelf item.

Just more difficult than recreating 'standard' electrics.

I am happy to measure any of the components characteristics if anyone wishes, however I will not be taking the resin off.

Somewhere I have a list of parts I sourced in the event any went belly up, thankfully never needed.

The circuit diagrams I have do mention values of most things so I will get a better look at that.

@Fretwired

With the Personal having an external transformer they got lost often and it was never right without it unless direct to desk.

Fretwired

@johnnyurq I didn't know there was an external transformer .. guitarist Kevin Peek had an LP Personal which he played live in the 70's.

@ChrisMusic - here's the new version of the guitar with a Stesbar ..

johnnyurq

@Fretwired

Yes it was a very common issue that folks lost the damned things so a retro fit of normal PUPs was they way to go, this IIRC was why they started putting the gubbins into the control cavity.

ChrisMusic

Well I have got really out of sync with this discussion.

Many thanks to you all for the numerous contributions since yesterday.

The internet here is WiFi based and has been affected by the storm, so I couldn't even see the pictures as it was so bloody slow that they wouldn't come down, that's when I could even get a connection.  I wonder if anyone else gets these sort of problems?  Last time I was in the Hebrides the satellite linked internet was always doing this sort of thing.  Hey ho.

Still its working, sort of OK now, so I am going to have a good read, videos look good so thanks to @Fretwired for those, I know they will be good, and as for the detailed pics and info and first-hand experience shared by @johnnyurq, wow, just fantastic, thanks.

Bucket

I played an LP Recording today on Denmark Street, a super-clean 1974 example which was up for £2795. Really, really liked it - ugly as sin but sounded great, and played really nicely too. Very surprised to find a proper out-of-phase quack sound as well as some more conventional Gibson-y tones. Was somewhat startled by the "Hi/Lo" switch though - it was on "Lo" and I had to crank the amp right up, then noticed the switch, flicked it and jumped out of my skin at the volume difference. That really opened it up tonally though - lots of fun to be had with it. Nice guitar, consider me a convert.

I like 70s Gibsons actually - they get a lot of hate but there's some cool stuff out there. I'd love a 70s LP Custom, and a 1975 L6 Deluxe I once played sticks in my mind as a really, really nice guitar. Again, it fell out of the ugly tree and hit every branch on the way down but that's probably part of the reason they still go for well under a grand most of the time. My dad used to have a pretty nice-looking '72 Les Paul which he regrets selling too.

That being said, I did once play a knackered old poo-brown '72 SG in a shop, and it was dreadful.

johnnyurq

The volute saves on tears and money that is all I will say.  

The lo setting is for jacking directly into a desk and makes perfect sense then, in an amp not so much.