Should I replace my 6505+ combo

Kensquire

Hi All,

Forgive for I am a relative noob to all this.

My dilemma is that I have a 6505+ 112 combo which I run pedals through and I have never been 100% happy with the sound I get.

I play in a covers band and somehow feel its not quite the right amp sometimes. The sound I get with pedals running through it always sounds too shrill and fizzy. Even without pedals, the cleans are just too fizzy at the top end and doesn't stay very clean even with the gain set to 0.5. This is with Epi Les Paul. The only way I can get it half decent clean is either rolling back the volume on the guitar and adjusting the tone so the top end is less.

With its current setup, arpeggiated notes sound passable on clean but a little thin sounding. Once you start strumming, it breaks up and starts sounding mushy.

I get most of my dirt from pedals (Bad Monkey, Fuzz Factory, AX3000G multiFX) and I get the best sound from the Bad Monkey as that seems to tame alot of fizz. The Fuzz factory sounds really thin and fizzy top end.

So is it a case of wrong amp? Or can can I do something basic like swapping out some pre-amp tubes?

ThePrettyDamned

It's not really a clean platform kind of amp.  The cleans on it are excellent in my opinion, but is really designed for a bit of verb, delay and chorus, not drive pedals.  

Get a footswitch.  Then you can (IIRC) switch between clean and crunch modes.  Use the lead for the heavier stuff.  

Also, epi pickups are not really known for being very good, so that could be part of the problem.  However, if you're after a clean platform amp, get a Hot Rod Deluxe or similar.  It'll have excellent and versatile cleans (more versatile than the 6505+) and take pedals well.  Also, the multi effects MAY be affecting your sound, though I wouldn't know for sure.  

The 6505+ is not known for being fizzy, that's for sure - it's a 5105 in a different shell.  

If you use the distortion on the amp, then I'd suggest using something that's not a tubescreamer, or a pickup upgrade to a nicer set.  But, by the sounds of it, it's really not the right amp for a fuzz factory.  

Kensquire

Regarding the fizzyness, could it be that its a pre-amp valve on its way out? I've tried to isolate whats causing it and when I've tried bypassing the pre-amp by running the AX3000G into the FX loop, and it sounds many times better.

My suspicions are that I'm trying to use the amp in a manner its not suited for. I'm not after a super clean sound, just something that is passable on the few songs that require it. The problem I have is that I'm trying to get a ton of different sounds out of one amp!

ThePrettyDamned

The AX3000G has amp sim models, which will work better straight into the loop.  Have you got any of them turned on?

monquixote

It sounds to me like you might want a different amp.

 

I don't know about the recent ones, but I've played a few of the earlier Van Halen sig amps and they deffo excelled at rock and metal more than cleans. 

Kensquire

Yes I have the amp sims on when I tried this. I can get a good enough Marshall tone when I try this, and the "boutique" clean amp sim sounds half decent too.

So I guess the pre-amp is to blame on this amp. Is this unsual in this amp?
Forgive the beginners question, but this is my first ever tube amp as I've always been a bedroom guitarist before!

Kensquire

I play quite a lot of rock in our set, but no metal. I can't seem to get a decent rock crunch out of the amp either.

I could go down the route of an ultra clean amp and use pedals for dirt, or I can get a more suitable rock amp and use the dirt channel there, and the clean channel + fuzz when needed. I do generally prefer the sound of a nice crunchy amp, but I need versatility of covering many bases.

Would something like a Jet City JCA100H be a more versatile choice? Maybe a Marshall MA100?

ThePrettyDamned

For rock crunch, hit the crunch button on the front on the clean channel. Very tasty.



Says he uses clean channel with the boost on and the bright switch engaged. It's sort of a 3 channel amp - clean, then crunch via that little button (still clean channel) then lead channel.

Run your multi into the effects loop, but have the drive pedal before the preamp into the front end. That way, you get your amp sims. They don't play well with preamps because they ARE a preamp in themselves. Sort of.

But I don't know why you'd struggle for a rock tone. What sort of bands do you want to sound like? The other thing you could do is use the multi for preamp direct into the effects loop, run pedals in front of that, and not plug into the front of the amp at all. That way, you have a 60 watt power amp with your digital preamps in front. Not sure how well the unit will take a drive pedal, though.

monquixote

If you can't get a good rock sound out of it, it might be on the blink or you might be EQing it wrongly. 

When you go from bedroom playing to gig level you often need less bass, more mids and quite a bit less gain. Piling on the filth and bass sounds good at low volumes, but can actually make your guitar sound indistinct at at volume. 

@digitalscream is the Jet City expect around here.

Kensquire

Ah, I forget about the crunch button! I do have the footswitch, and the switch is labelled boost, so I've tended to avoid hitting it.

ThePrettyDamned said:

Says he uses clean channel with the boost on and the bright switch engaged. It's sort of a 3 channel amp - clean, then crunch via that little button (still clean channel) then lead channel.

But I don't know why you'd struggle for a rock tone. What sort of bands do you want to sound like? The other thing you could do is use the multi for preamp direct into the effects loop, run pedals in front of that, and not plug into the front of the amp at all. That way, you have a 60 watt power amp with your digital preamps in front. Not sure how well the unit will take a drive pedal, though.

The sorts of bands we are covering are varying from Foo Fighters, Nirvana, Fleetwood Mac, Muse, QOTSA, Blondie and some Undertones/Buzzcocks. So you can see I really need a basic rock crunch, then a heavier sound for Foo Fighters/Nirvana then a fuzz tone for Muse/QOTSA.

monquixote said:

If you can't get a good rock sound out of it, it might be on the blink or you might be EQing it wrongly. 

When you go from bedroom playing to gig level you often need less bass, more mids and quite a bit less gain. Piling on the filth and bass sounds good at low volumes, but can actually make your guitar sound indistinct at at volume. 

@digitalscream is the Jet City expect around here.

I'm hoping its user error (i.e I'm not able to dial it in) as opposed to amp failure. Will have more of a tinker with it dialling down the gain and bass when I get a chance to play with it a gig volumes. At the moment I'm relying on rehearsal room amps which I'm generally more satisfied with the sounds I can get. Will have to break my back and take the amp to rehearsals next time!

monquixote

Again I'm talking about the 1st gen 5150 which is the one I'm familiar with, but I seem to remember you had to give it a little bit of welly to get the best out of it.

digitalscream

For what it's worth, I use a JCA50H slightly out of the normal usage pattern - I have the gain maxed on the normal channel (crunch, in anyone else's book) and I get a great heavy rock sound out of it like that. From there, if I need clean then I just bring the volume back on the guitar for a whole range of tones down to a slightly dirty blues clean. The amp will run pretty spanking clean if you bring the normal channel gain down to about 2 - 3, but the volume difference between that and my heavy distorted rhythm sound is too big for me.

The overdrive channel's gain starts at about the equivalent of 7 on the normal channel and goes waaaaay into insanity levels; I never run mine at more than 6 on the gain control. It's got a different character, too - smoother, in my opinion.

I reckon it'll do what you want, but you'd have to play around with the EQ controls quite a bit to find what you're looking for.

If I'm honest, though, I'd say that an Orange amp would suit your music a lot more - most of their amps seem to have a slightly sludgy tone with a British edge to it.

Kensquire

Thanks for the advice guys. Its got me thinking along the lines of persevere with the Peavey for now and see if it can be dialled in a bit better, or start browsing for another amp.

Never thought about Orange before apart from the ones I've tried in rehearsal rooms. They've always sounded nice, but always seem out of my price range. Hence why the Jet City came up on my radar. I've spotted Thomann doing the JCA100HDM head and 2x12 cab for around £480. That is selling my amp and adding a hundred or so.

Hmmm, will have to have a long hard think.

ThePrettyDamned

I'd take the amp and use the multi effects as just that - no amp sims, just chorus, reverb, delay etc. The amp has gain enough for anything, so run the effects into the front. Then use the foots witch for clean, crunch and lead. See how the amp sounds first before chucking other pedals in front, but take the tubescreamer with you to tighten things up - just use volume, not gain, on it. Then dial to taste

Good luck, and let us know how you get on. I love the 6505 series, and the Chinese one you have was a great way of getting a 5150 circuit in an affordable package. As far as I know, until the 5153, they were all identical to all intents and purposes.

The biggest complaint about the combo is the speaker being muddy (rectified with a v30). So fizz and such is likely coming from the amp sims. I'd forget about the multi, just make the amp sound good then work out what else you need.

The Fuzz factory can be a mare to dial in, too. Worth writing settings down. Also, a boss ds1 might be a decent choice for those tones.

Kensquire

Fuzz Factory can be a bit of a mare true. I've recently bought an EQ pedal to go after it, and now it seems like its much easier to dial in the tone that I have in my head!

This is all learning experience for me. Having an amp and getting your pedals all setup for it, then having to have it all different for rehearsals as the amp will be different, and then another setup again for silent practise through headphones at home. How do you more seasoned pro's handle this situation? Always take the amp you play at gigs to rehearsals?

ThePrettyDamned

The best way is to set the amp up, then add pedals on by one.  When things go balls up, you know which one it is that you're doing wrong.  For example, set your clean and 'boost' channel.  These will be pedal platforms.  By the sounds of it, you won't be using the lead channel anyway.

Once you're happy with those sounds, add the first pedal - fuzz factory.  Get that to sound good.  Hopefully, you won't need to EQ.  If you do, try it before, after and in the loop, but make sure it doesn't screw with everything else.  Then, add the next effect - only if you *need* them though.  

Only do the multi effects last, if it has something you need that nothing else does.  For things like delay and reverb, put it in the loop.  Same for amp sims - that'll need you to bypass the 6505 preamp though...

If possible, avoid amp sims.  They'll complicate everything.  If you can't get what you need, then look into another amp.

I'd rehearse with the same amp if possible, particularly if you want to learn to set it up right.  Once you've got the settings, use whatever.