The Rugby Union Thread

5redlights

lloyd said:

5redlights said:

tbm said:

Speaking of how to tackle properly:

Technically, that's not tackling properly. 

Head on the right side, wrapped his arms round the man, nothing wrong with that?

His arms are loose and a bit weak, he doesn't really drive through with the tackle, and although that's in part because of his position, a better position in that situation would have been a full side on hit. His right leg isn't position too well either. 

I'm being picky, and it's a good tackle in the circumstances, but it's not a 100% textbook tackle. 

lloyd

@5redlights I agree you're being picky, wouldn't want you coaching me!

I thought he jumps into it a bit to force the guy to touch rather than bring him down, I reckon he hit's him differently if they're in the middle of the field? Side on there and momentum might  take the guy through to the flag.

5redlights

lloyd said:

@5redlights I agree you're being picky, wouldn't want you coaching me!

I thought he jumps into it a bit to force the guy to touch rather than bring him down, I reckon he hit's him differently if they're in the middle of the field? Side on there and momentum might  take the guy through to the flag.

The guy gets a bit lucky, hitting the runner while he's shifting his balance. Yes, totally agree that different parts of the field require different tackles (Dan Lydiate is extremely good at this, just watch how he shifts his tackling depending on the situation) and it was the right thing to do in the circumstances, but not technically perfect. 

However, if we're talking about perfect tackles, they are the types of tackles that should bring someone down regardless of size. Chances are, with more pace or better positioning by the runner, the tackler would've just bounced off here as he doesn't have a solid footing. 

This is my problem with the child tackling comments about "big kids". There have always been big kids. In school, in rugby clubs, anywhere. However a good tackle should bring down anyone, proper teaching helps ensure this happens. 

lloyd

5redlights said:

lloyd said:

@5redlights I agree you're being picky, wouldn't want you coaching me!

I thought he jumps into it a bit to force the guy to touch rather than bring him down, I reckon he hit's him differently if they're in the middle of the field? Side on there and momentum might  take the guy through to the flag.

 

This is my problem with the child tackling comments about "big kids". There have always been big kids. In school, in rugby clubs, anywhere. However a good tackle should bring down anyone, proper teaching helps ensure this happens. 

The problem for me is is that there will always be enough bad tackles, particularly at younger age groups that the big kid gets through, therefore the tactic becomes give it to him and he steamrolls through everyone.

There are enough teachers, parents and coaches out there that want to win at any cost and that cost is to the detriment of kids skills-none more so than the big lad. He could go through 5-6 years of being the 'best' player on the pitch by virtue of his physical development and not work on his skills, then he get's caught up by everyone else and hasn't got the skills developed and you lose him to the game or he just hasn't progressed the way he could/should have.

20-25 years ago when I played school rugby there was always a guy with a beard who was fucking huge, he'd run through 2 or 3 tackles, get taken down but gainline crossed and you're back tracking. I played wing a lot and got knocked out by one bearded ape when I was 12/13 when I got my head on the wrong side (stopped the bastard though woke up in the ensuing ruck a few seconds later).

the thing with perfect tackles is that you can teach them without the need to practice them on somebody who is a lot bigger, stronger, faster than you, they're perfect/good regardless.

The issue is that kids will all develop at different rates and the school year is skewed by an arbitrary date-my birthday landed on 30th August, had I been born a few days later I'd have been playing rugby with people a year younger than those I did play with. A year can be fucking huge when you're 12, 13, 14 etc. Luckily for me I was never the smallest or least developed and was actually a pretty good player as I played outside of school too, so I imagine if I played for the year below me (if born a few days later) I would have been fucking amazing, a world beater at that grade yet exactly the same size and skill set. I imagine that this scenario is being played out on school rugby fields the country over, there's no benefit to the player or the game.

koneguitarist

When I was coaching at junior level, I always found the smallest guys were best tacklers, as they would always go for ankles and bring player down to ground.

Doesn't matter how big or tough you are you cant run with ankles together. 

The bigger guys always went for macho tackles and would come off worse. I often made an example of them due to this, but or be honest I feel it's the RL influence that has brought more injuries to union players. 

In League you often get the ball up against a flat defence, you very rarely get a chance to build up pace and smash into opposition tackler in same way as a 1 on 1 in Union. In League you will get one tackle high and one tackle low, one to stop player and one to stop offload etc. In Union often its 1 on 1 but they still try and stop offload so go for the big hit, this has more danger to it, if you get it slightly wrong or miss time your tackle, you can get smashed worse than attacker. Bigger collisions which even if text book perfect can still hurt attacker and defender. 

Lydiate and Warburton work with less injuries to opposite numbers as they are going for the ball, Lydiate brings tackler down and Warburton over the top going for ball, biggest danger is to Warburton getting cleared out with the regular shoulder charged clear outs that teams get away with more often than not. 

I think League has had in some ways a positive change to union, but also in some ways detrimental effect due to defence being more important than attack. We need to change the mindset to that of NZ, "score a try against us, but we will score two against you!"

Until we decide we want to win more than we don't want to lose, things will not change. 

koneguitarist

Like this tackle, why would you go high on a guy like this? Stupid. http://www.planetrugby.com/news/video-nadolo-sends-defender-flying/

scrumhalf

Andy Goode's just scored a penalty for Newcastle - the kick hit the right post, then the left post, then went over.

Never seen anything like it.

koneguitarist

Ok, the big match this weekend is the England V Wales match, predictions anyone?

Gassage

The debate about the 'correct side to tackle' is facile.

Every player has a favoured side- and believe it or not that is defined by eye dominance- the opposite shoulder to the dominant eye is the case.

So players will try to walk around the carrier to use their favoured shoulder. Part of a great defence is also making sure that two players with the same eye dominance are not paired say in the centre. it really is a lot bigger deal than you may think- Dr Sheryl Calder has made a career of coaching this at elite level.

koneguitarist

Wow, that's a new one on me. Interesting.

Gassage

@koneguitarist

Taff, point at a vertical line about 5m away.

Then close one eye, then the other. The eye that stays ON the line is your dominant one.

It sounds crackers but it's so true. People have to learn tackling both sides and it's not as easy as you may think as a tackle is all about judging depth of field.

Hope all good with you- I'll be at game Sat- I can't call it at all. I'm thinking a score of 22 - 17 to one or the other side!

lloyd

As above I think England go into this one as slight favourites, to be fair no one has set the tournament alight. Read a lot of nice things about Engkand but they've beaten Scotland, Italy and a very depleted Ireland at home. You'd expect that. The smell of a certain GS (first since 2003?) with a win, WC revenge, Eddie Jones and a better back line picked pushes them to favourites. Wales are bloody awful to watch, but tough to beat and generally finish better in the competition. Wouldn't be surprised if either team won it by a couple points only. I'll go for a Wales win, but only because I'm Welsh.

koneguitarist

Gassage said:

@koneguitarist

Taff, point at a vertical line about 5m away.

Then close one eye, then the other. The eye that stays ON the line is your dominant one.

It sounds crackers but it's so true. People have to learn tackling both sides and it's not as easy as you may think as a tackle is all about judging depth of field.

Hope all good with you- I'll be at game Sat- I can't call it at all. I'm thinking a score of 22 - 17 to one or the other side!

@Gassage Will check that out, not something I have ever thought of, makes a good reason why some players tackle better one way or the other.

Have a great time at twickers, but not too good eh! 

@lloyd, if Charteris fit, I think we will win, if not then England should just tip it. England have been flattered by scores especially against Ireland, with Irish injuries and tries disallowed etc. 

But Wales are playing really badly, reminds me of England, just before 2003, awful to watch but just kept on winning. 

lloyd

Some claim about the England 2003 comparison! Saturday's game is a coin toss. Not much difference between all the teams.

lloyd

@koneguitarist Charteris is fit apparently

Rocker

Gassage said:

... point at a vertical line about 5m away.

Then close one eye, then the other. The eye that stays ON the line is your dominant one.

That is so true.  This fact is absolutely crucial in shotgun shooting.  One of the few things I would naturally do left handed is hold a shotgun.  But my right eye is 'master' so I had to learn to shoot right handed.  My left hand points at what my right eye sees.  Note, you don't aim a shotgun, you point it at the target.

Because of my disability, I have to play golf left handed.  Despite being natural right handed.  I do putt right handed though.

koneguitarist

lloyd said:

Some claim about the England 2003 comparison! Saturday's game is a coin toss. Not much difference between all the teams.

Not saying we were as good, just that watching them bludgeon teams to death with that pack of theirs, before they opened up after opposition was completely knackered. Reminds me of boring rugby to watch yet it's winning rugby, and that's all that counts.

Let's hope we are boring but winning on Saturday! 

lloyd

koneguitarist said:

lloyd said:

Some claim about the England 2003 comparison! Saturday's game is a coin toss. Not much difference between all the teams.

Not saying we were as good, just that watching them bludgeon teams to death with that pack of theirs, before they opened up after opposition was completely knackered. Reminds me of boring rugby to watch yet it's winning rugby, and that's all that counts.

Let's hope we are boring but winning on Saturday! 

Ah I'm with you, it is boring but wouldn't say it's down to a bludgeoning pack. I would take 0-3 Saturday

eSully

England - Wales is always extremely hard to call but I can't see past a tight England win this year. They'll be so fired up after the World Cup loss.

As for the Ireland game, young flanker Jack O DOnaghue called into the squad. I hope Schmidth gives him a run from the bench and keeps McCloskey as a starter. 

eSully

Welsh team being announced at 11am today. Can't imagine too many surprises. Charteris back maybe and Rhys Webb on the bench.