Volume Levels

Nunogilberto

One thing I've been trying to do at jam nights/practice etc, is roll my volume back for the quieter parts of a song, and whack it up to full for a solo etc. I'm finding that when I play alongside another guitarist (one in particular), I can hear myself during the rhythm parts, but when I turn up for a solo, it makes little difference and I get entirely lost in the mix. One or two have advised me to get a boost pedal, but part of me thinks perhaps the other player needs to turn down a little.

The other thing that may not help is amp placement. Our amps normally wind up on the same side of the stage, so it could be that I'm not hearing myself clearly enough.

Sorry for the train of thought rambling here - any thoughts or advice would be appreciated.

ICBM

Sounds like you may be just increasing the amount of overdrive and not the volume… if the amp is already fairly overdriven for the rhythm part this is bound to happen. This is always a problem with the run-it-from-the-guitar method unless you're backing off so far the amp goes back to clean. A boost pedal in front of the amp will have the same effect, but if the amp has a loop you could put it there and it will work. A *treble* booster - rather than clean boost - in front of the amp may work though.

What guitars/amps/sounds are you both using? The more similar they are, the more volume boost you will need to make your solos heard. Unless you're playing truly twin-guitar parts it's usually a bad idea to have two very similar-sonding guitar setups exactly for this reason - EQ is as important as volume when it comes to hearing things in a mix. Being on the same side of the stage probably isn't going to help either. Can you change that - what's on the other side?

Maynehead

The only decent way that I have found of boosting solo volume in a mix when your gain is fairly saturated is by putting a boost pedal in the FX loop.

I use a 6 band EQ pedal with all frequencies slightly boosted (by different amounts) which works just as well as a transparent boost, with the added bonus of allowing a bit of tone shaping of the lead tone.

Nunogilberto

Thanks for the input (how punny) guys.

@ICBM I can see what you mean re. increasing overdrive. The other player uses a Dime signature with humbuckers etc, and tends to play with heavy distortion through a 100w combo. I tend to play a Strat HSH through the house 100w half stack. I try to get some slight crunch for rhythm, and some more overdrive/volume for lead work etc. That's the idea anyway!

As for the positioning, it may be possible to put one over the other side near the bassist - maybe I'll take my own 100w combo and do that.

I think a boost pedal is looking like an option, just to try...

Voxman

I use a BBE Boosta Grand pedal in the effects loop of my amps, and it works a treat.  It gives me a controllable, punchy, clean boost and I can then set just how much boost I want via its single control knob.  I prefer to put this in the FX loop because otherwise (in front of the amp) it acts as a gain boost (also useful), but as I only use this when I want to up volume for a solo, I want to keep the original tone. This may sound like an odd 'contradiction', but the BBEBG also seems to add some 'girth/body' which makes my guitar much punchier but without colouring the underlying tone, so it actually doesn't need that much volume uplift to punch through.  I'm probably not explaining that right but it's a super pedal & I'd recommend you try it if you're looking for a clean boost solution.

More recently I'm using my Vox Tonelab LE through the PA rather than an amp, but unfortunately I haven't yet found a way to satisfactorily use the BBE BG with it. The TLLE is supposed to have an 'Insert' IN/OUT for external effects but all it seems to do is add noise - still trying to figure that one out. However, our drummer 'tech' has figured out a way to give me a volume boost through the PA that I can control via a footswitch, so looking forward to trying that out.  

steamabacus

Nunogilberto said:

One thing I've been trying to do at jam nights/practice etc, is roll my volume back for the quieter parts of a song, and whack it up to full for a solo etc. I'm finding that when I play alongside another guitarist (one in particular), I can hear myself during the rhythm parts, but when I turn up for a solo, it makes little difference and I get entirely lost in the mix. One or two have advised me to get a boost pedal, but part of me thinks perhaps the other player needs to turn down a little.

You could be on to something here.

A common complaint is that "guitarists are always too loud". But something I've always maintained is that no one ever gets told they're too loud when they're playing a solo (well, assuming it's still below the pain threshhold) - it's always the bread-and-butter rhythm playing that gets moaned about.

Part of playing with multiple instruments, especially two or more instruments occpying the same sonic spectrum (i.e. guitars), is controlling where you sit in the mix to be appropriate for the part you're playing.

If you blast out all over the vocal sections of a song to the point the vocals are inaudible the singer is going to moan at you. Moreover, you're not doing your job very well - at that point in the song, the vocals are the focus and you should be supporting them, not drowning them out.

Similarly, if your rhythm guitars are blasting out to the point the lead guitarist becomes an inaudible comedy mime artist - you're not doing your job very well.

Another point I'd make is that the difference in level needed between your rhythm and lead sounds is very much dependent on the size and composition of the band. In a guitar/bass/drums set up you don't need an awful lot of a volume hike - maybe even more of a mid-boost than volume boost will do the job. In a 15 piece band, though, the difference between your rhythm sound sat in the mix and your lead sound rising above all that can be quite substantial.

Voxman

The problem with turning the guitar volume down is that (especially smaller club gigs), the 'lowest common denominator' in a band is most often the drummer - assuming the drums aren't miked up, these can't easily be 'turned down' - there are some things a drummer can do, eg padding in bass drum, closing the high hat, and even using different types of drumsticks, but all these things will often kill the feel.  So its often a compromise/balancing act.  The other important thing of course is that the bass guitar levels have to be 'right' and the vocals need to cut through too - so hence getting the guitar volume to punch through for solos and lower for rhythm stuff is often a needed approach.  At our last gig my guitar volume was fine for rhythm but needed more volume for solo's - which we've now (hopefully) solved. 

Danny1969

The cheapest easiest way is a cut in the effects loop, your normal sound is with the cut engaged and your boosted sound is with the cut switched out. A simple 10K pot mounted in a box will accomplish this 

Also tell the other guy to ease off a little when your taking a solo, make a little room so to speak. Acoustic muso's are generally excellent at this, it's harder sometimes with electric rock as easing off on guitar will lose gain as well but in some kinds of less distorted rock it can work. It's like DJ ducking on the radio, notice how when the DJ speaks the music ducks in volume to make room for him \ her

jpfamps

In my experience guitarists are usually too loud when playing "rhythm" and too quiet when playing "lead". This is not helped by the fact when playing rhythm you are generally playing chords, ie more than one string at a time, and thus generating more signal when playing single note lead, so your lead sound needs to be much louder than your rhythm sound. The guitar can cause utter carnage in a mix if too loud, so you need to be very careful volume wise when play rhythm.

Nunogilberto

Thanks for the advice chaps - I've got myself a Mooer Pure Boost from the local music refinery, and it seems to work a treat going through the FX loop on my amp - I shall give it a go later this week at the jam night...

thomasross20

Good stuff
I use a TC spark boost in clean mode for solo breaks.
Guitar volume roll off is nice but could be tricky to get perfect at a gig whereas I think a boost works every time.
Others know way more than me about this, though..

Grunfeld

Nunogilberto said:

...any thoughts or advice would be appreciated.

Marshall JVM.  Play mostly on the first master volume channel but set the second master volume channel to "louder than everything else in the world".  Which gives plenty of wiggle room to go definitive on solos.

Cabicular

I play really softly when the other guy gets to solo Never does the same for me! So I just have to overwhelm everything One thing the M13 does which is really hard to replicate, is give you a ton of volume via the expression pedal. I set my heel back volume on the amp to just at the point where it's too loud then back my playing off. Toe down is apocolyptically loud . I typically ease the pedal about halfway in between but when I need to... You'll hear me

ICBM

A ZVex Fuzz Factory through a 100W amp on the clean channel has that effect as well .