Public Liability Insurance

DartmoorHedgehog

The band I'm in has been asked to play at a mate's wedding reception in a local hotel.  We're an amateur band, gigging once a month or so, usually in pubs, usually unpaid (i.e. we do it for fun, not as a business), so PLI has never been an issue.  But the hotel requires us to have cover for this gig.

We've been looking around on the web and it seems we can get cover for around £50 to £70 for £2m cover (for a year), which isn't too bad, but just thought I'd ask on here if anybody knows any cheaper temporary cover (I can't find any - I sort of assumed it would be like travel insurance where you pay £5 for temporary cover, but it seems not).

Any recommendations for an amateur band playing a one-off gig in a health and safety obsessed venue?

BenSirAmos

Are any of you MU members? it comes free with membership, I think.

BigMonka

I'm no expert but I would have thought that PL insurance would be worth having even for an amateur band. If someone trips over your gear and smashes they're head open then I don't think you'll get off just because the pub weren't paying you.

Musicians union membership would cover you as well as giving other benefits - but that's more expensive than just the insurance.

fretmeister

That's cheap. Almost to the point that I would be suspicious about it.

I'm an Equity member so I get mine via them, but the MU do something similar, and you get the other membership benefits - legal advice, help recovering unpaid invoices from paid gigs etc.

not_the_dj

Allianz, Music Guard and New Moon all offer it along with their instrument insurance. Not sure if they offer it as a standalone, but it's worth a call to them.

DartmoorHedgehog

No, we're not MU members.  When I said insurance hadn't been an issue before, I didn't mean there was no risk, I just meant that no venue we normally play at actually required it, so it hasn't been a priority.  If we get cover because of this gig, then obviously it won't be completely pointless at the other gigs.

I do think it's pathetic though that you have to insure yourself against some pissed muppet staggering onto the stage and injuring themselves - but that's beside the point in today's blame-driven society  It's not even as if we've got big PA speaker towers that could fall and whack somebody.

DartmoorHedgehog

fretmeister said:

That's cheap. Almost to the point that I would be suspicious about it

You mean the £50?  It was these people  http://www.insurance4performingarts.co.uk/

Must admit I only had a quick look while googling around for quotes.

I've got my kit insured with Allianz, and could have liability cover added to the policy for about £30 a year or thereabouts I think, but it only covers damage deemed to be caused by my kit - so we'd have to add the rest of the band's kit to my policy for that to work.

Danny1969

PI is about £148 a year for us, we did get a days cover for £34 once. MU won't cover the band unless everyone's in the MU 

It's not just speakers falling over, it's your gear starting a fire, you dropping a bass cab on someones foot during the load in \ load out

Heads up - a lot of venues need a PAT certificate pdf  emailed  over too so that's another ball ache if your gears not PAT tested 

DartmoorHedgehog

Yeah, they want PAT as well, but one of us is a techy in a local college so we can get that done easily.

Strat_a_tat_tat

We use these guys.

£69 covers the whole band for a year.

https://www.ampband.co.uk/

 

DartmoorHedgehog

Thanks @strat_a_tat_tat.  That was one of the others I found in my googling around last night.  Slightly more expensive than the Rees Astley people, but £10m cover vs £2m.  One of those is looking most hopeful I think.

IvisonGuitars

All the above is great info and absolutely the right thing to do...

....as I have done in the past, arranged PLI through the MU & a PAT test of all the gear to satisfy a hotel booking who specifically stressed we couldn't play the function if we didnt have it...

....went to the gig with a folder with all relevant paperwork in....they never queried if we even had it or asked to see it once.

Total waste of time and money.

But you should have it.

DartmoorHedgehog

miserneil said:

Total waste of time and money.

But you should have it.

That's pretty much my attitude to this!  If I could give you a lol and a wisdom I would

Still, we're a 5-piece band so it's only going to be £10 to £20 each a year, which is pretty insignificant really.

ash96

We use that AmpBand one too. Its pretty good for the money.

Its one of those classic things that 99% of the time its more of a 'ticking the box' thing for a venue rather than actually needing it, but we probably get about 1 in 10 gigs asking us to send over PAT tests and PLI certs. Especially in old / fancy hotels.

maltingsaudio

DartmoorHedgehog said:

miserneil said:

Total waste of time and money.

But you should have it.

That's pretty much my attitude to this!  If I could give you a lol and a wisdom I would

Still, we're a 5-piece band so it's only going to be £10 to £20 each a year, which is pretty insignificant really.

I use Music Guard, I really must pick you up on the your attitude to safety and insurance though. Accidents can  happen any time any where.   You can't blame a venue for trying to make things as safe as possible

vasselmeyer

I saw a band (not mine!) where the PA poles were cheapo rubbish and the screw holding the tripod legs wouldn't grip the speaker pole properly. The singer owned the PA system and knew about the fault but didn't sort it. Mid-gig the legs slipped out, the whole pole dropped and the corner of the speaker hit a woman right on the head.

Next time I saw them I asked about it and it took a lot of fast talking and free drinks for the rest of the night for the entire table to placate them. Next time I saw the band, the singer still hadn't sorted it.

The band had no PLI.

fretmeister

It's only a waste of time and money up until the point your gear severely injures someone and they sue you for all the earnings they would have earned up until the point of retirement.

25 year old earning £25,000. Retirement age of 68 = £1,075,000 without inflation / pay rises etc.

+ nursing fees, + the injury itself + etc etc etc.

They will take your house and everything else you own. 

"It won't happen to us, we are careful"

That is exactly what everybody says. It's usually followed by "I never thought it would happen to us."

gubble

It's such an important thing to have.

Sod's law dictates if you have it you won't need it, if you don't have it the worst will happen.

We find it's mainly the hotels (for weddings) and holiday parks that ask to see it. The certificate is stored on my phone so it can be emailed straight away

DartmoorHedgehog

maltingsaudio said:

I really must pick you up on the your attitude to safety and insurance though. Accidents can  happen any time any where.   You can't blame a venue for trying to make things as safe as possible

Yes, sorry I know it's not a matter to joke about really (that's why I left the "but you should have it" in the quote from miserneil) - perhaps I came across as too casual.  

We will be getting some PLI cover, don't worry.  We seem to be becoming more popular (which is nice) and being offered more gigs, so obviously more gigs means the chances of something nasty happening (even at the places that don't actually ask for PLI) is increasing.  I do agree it will be a good thing to have, for a pretty minimal layout in the grand scheme of things.

Danny1969

I bet if it come to it though and the insurance company had to fork out £1 million in damages to a punter they would pull every trick in the book to avoid paying out

fretmeister

Danny1969 said:

I bet if it come to it though and the insurance company had to fork out £1 million in damages to a punter they would pull every trick in the book to avoid paying out

You mean they will check to see if the policy holder actually read and complied with the terms of the policy?

Of course they will. And frankly if the policyholder didn't read it, or didn't comply with the terms then he's an idiot.