Chasing Tone

Barney

i think its mostly in the fingers if you have a decent tone to start off with...it dosnt have to be top class (expensive) gear just good enough the rest in my opinion is in the fingers ...unless of course iff you want to play extreme metal on the clean channel of a fender twin..iff you know what i mean.......i was playing in a club a while back and a friend of mine..a guitarist.. heard the last tune as he was coming down the road ..he came in and we had finished our first set and he said....i couldnt half tell it was you playing by the sound of  that boogie and overwater.......that night i wasnt , it was a strat and hot rod deluxe...

Lixarto

GuitarMonkey said: I think (to some extent) it's in the head.

You, the player, might notice subtle (or not so subtle) differences but you can bet that 99% of your audience won't.

Yes indeed - perhaps important to remember when we're in guitar shops.

dindude

I think there is obviously a huge amount of stylistic carryover when you play different gear and it this what makes people sound the same when playing different rigs.

 But I think we would all agree that there are defined characteristics of various guitars (Les Paul vs Strat to state an obvious starting point) and amps as well and these are going to have an influence too. 

At the risk of receiving another face palm or too, 99% in the fingers is too simplistic, 99% of your style and playing characteristics maybe, but tone, I'm not so sure. I sound like me through my Yamaha Thr thingy, but I don't think anyone would argue that my main rig has better "tone".

Dave_Mc

^ If you ask me, the sensible way to do it is to separate the two. Accept that there is "gear tone" (i.e. certain kit sounds a certain way) and "finger tone" (the player). Obviously there's some overlap and one can affect the other, but I agree that acting like either is the only thing that matters is silly.

scrumhalf said:

Dave_Mc said:

When I wave my fingers around in mid-air I don't get any sound at all, though?

That's because your air guitar needs an air amplifier.

LOL, I knew I was doing something wrong.

Fretwired

Also remember that if you're listing to a classic tone on a record then it's probably been processed during the mixing process, especially if it's been recorded by a first class producer in a big studio like Abbey Road. The Classic Album TV shows are quite illuminating in this regard - check out the Steely Dan one with all the various guitar takes they rejected. There are some isolated recordings of Page's tone on the web. They sound like a wasp in a bottle but work perfectly in the song mix.

As to the fingers I think it comes down to what you play - having worked with two world class guitarists I'd say it was true of one but not the other. It's obviously key playing an acoustic and clean/crunch electric, but IMHO the importance diminishes as more gain/distortion and tone sucking pedals are added.

digitalscream

Dave_Mc said:

^ If you ask me, the sensible way to do it is to separate the two. Accept that there is "gear tone" (i.e. certain kit sounds a certain way) and "finger tone" (the player). Obviously there's some overlap and one can affect the other, but I agree that acting like either is the only thing that matters is silly.

Yup. For example, if that were true Satriani could make an Argos Strat copy through a Stagg 10W combo sound like his sig Ibby through a JVM; with the best will in the world, that's not going to happen. He might still sound recognisably Satch (probably, in fact), but that's style and not tone.

Yes, it's an extreme example, but it just shows that it simply isn't true. I tend to treat everything in the signal path (from the fingers to the speakers) as the instrument; change any one component, and it's going to affect the tone. Some bits more than others, of course - a cable change isn't going to have as much effect as a different amp or cab - but the whole "99% in the fingers" is pretty much rubbish.

scrumhalf

mike_l said:

@scrumhalf air guitar also needs air F/X for a full air guitar session.......

Not for us traditionalists...

Dave_Mc

digitalscream said:

Dave_Mc said:

^ If you ask me, the sensible way to do it is to separate the two. Accept that there is "gear tone" (i.e. certain kit sounds a certain way) and "finger tone" (the player). Obviously there's some overlap and one can affect the other, but I agree that acting like either is the only thing that matters is silly.

Yup. For example, if that were true Satriani could make an Argos Strat copy through a Stagg 10W combo sound like his sig Ibby through a JVM; with the best will in the world, that's not going to happen. He might still sound recognisably Satch (probably, in fact), but that's style and not tone.

Yes, it's an extreme example, but it just shows that it simply isn't true. I tend to treat everything in the signal path (from the fingers to the speakers) as the instrument; change any one component, and it's going to affect the tone. Some bits more than others, of course - a cable change isn't going to have as much effect as a different amp or cab - but the whole "99% in the fingers" is pretty much rubbish.

Yeah. I think there's a video on youtube where satch plays through beginner gear. he's still a badass, of course, but he doesn't sound as good as through his own rig.

And just to clarify, I totally agree that being a good player is important, in case it looks like I'm arguing the opposite point- I'm not. Just either extreme position is kinda missing the point, if you ask me.

paulmapp8306

I think "its all in the fingers" can be mis-understood.

Im always told - when people hear recordings - that they can tell its me.  NOT because of the actual sound but by the style.  For instance, I always have the same bend technique, I have my favourite little lick patterns, and my timing/phrasing always comes through as me.

However, TONALLY - I sound totally different on different guitars, or amps.  Its why I have 5 guitars.  A Tele with 50s PUs, a Strat with 60s.  A 335 type with low Output PAFS, a PRS (cos I dont like LPs) with higher OP PAFS, and another with higher output ceramics.  The last one doesnt get used much as I dont really play that kind of stuff - and when I do I can use the other PRS, BUT I love the look/colour of the thing, and cant seem to part with her.  I REALLY should, and replace her with either an out and out HH or HSH Floyd loaded metal guitar OR a nice something with P90s.  Still thats off the point.

A great guitarist can get the best out of cheap gear for sure - but wont sound as good as he does with great gear.  A crap guitarist will always sound crap, and 90% of the time the reason for doing so on great gear is because they cant dial that gear in.  If they could they would sound better tonally ..... but still play crap .  What it would do is inspire them to play and learn more - leading to becoming a better guitarist.

Well - thats my thoughts anyway.

mike_l

scrumhalf said:

mike_l said:

@scrumhalf air guitar also needs air F/X for a full air guitar session.......

Not for us traditionalists...

How can you pull air guitar air wah faces then?

stickyfiddle

"Tone in fingers" is definitely a thing, but it's not the same thing as what dumble-chasers talk about when they mean tone. 

Take Mark Knopfler. He's totally recognisable on Sultans of Swing as well as Brothers in Arms, but the guitar sounds couldn't be more different if they tried.