What's the best thing for removing Danish Oil?

mudslide73

In my youth I stripped and oiled my beloved Jackson Fusion using Colron Danish Oil. (I know, I'm sorry). I'm very interested in doing it again properly with Wudtone or Truoil. What's the best stripper for this?

WezV

you can't strip it as such, oil finishes (especially thinner ones like danish oil) soak into the wood. not far, but far enough

 

When i wan't to remove it I scape the surface off and then finish sand.  I then give it a good rub down with thinners.   But the only real option at this stage is to re-oil with somethign else.   It does depend on wood though.  it will soak quite far into swamp ash but not very far on maple so you get more options for refinishing the maple

 

If you can get it back to a good state i would recomment tru-oil rather than wudtone because wudtone is really designed to wood well when the wood is as raw as possible, and you won't be able to garantee this now

 

Of course you could also go with danish oil and wax and not have to worry about compatibility at all

ToneControl

I Danish oil my IKEA worktops made of birch. It doesn't take much sanding to get it off those

What's wrong with Danish oil for guitars? too sticky???

I had one luthier who used gun oil, that seemed ok

andypwudtone

WezV said:

  I then give it a good rub down with thinners.   

 i would recomment tru-oil rather than wudtone 

 

Thanks Wez, 

lets complete the picture, deal with some additional considerations / facts to help mudslide rather than mislead him into using something that may cause further problems, not meet his needs.

first DO NOT use any old thinners. This is a misleading, general term, anything like naptha, turps , will give you further problems. My take is do not use any kind of thinners, cleaning agent,  even if you used a fast evaporating product like acetone/ cellulose thinners, all you are going to do is keeping clogging the wood with thinned yuck. 

As long as you sand back to bare wood ( I accept it may be hard to assess this but as Tone control mentions its no that difficult to sand back) ) and key it effectively ( final sand and cut with clean 240 grit)  you can take your pick of a number of the Wudtone base coat options. It would be best to judge / test this when you have sanded back. In my experience an orbital sander starting with 100 grit doesn't take long to get there.

What colour, look did you have in mind? do a bit of google research and send me a pic to mail@wudtone.com if you want me to help suggest a tint from the existing colours or look at a custom mix. 

For Top coat. 

Well I suppose it may be reasonable to draw a comparison / conclusion between Tru Oil and one of the Wudtone products, the XGLOSS TOP COAT. ( Which is in itself suitable for use on sealed wood ( ie after base coats)  . 

Wudtone has three other top coat option including two tinted , SATIN, SATIN AGEING, XGLOSS AGEING.   

Here is the issue with Tru Oil. In the chemical composition of Tru-oil, is polymerised oils ( so it is effectively it is  like ragging on poly) . It is quick easy to get a nice shiny looking guitar ( dries relatively faster as it has more quick evaporation solvents in it ) . However it dries leaving a relatively soft polymerised coating in comparison to Wudtone. 

Because of those reasons ( and pretty well accepted view that the cured hardness of a finishes make a difference ) it dampens the resonance and sustain of a guitar. Now as you can see some luthiers still like it, which I find odd, ( unless you want quick , nice and glossy look, bit like poly too) .

I would say that unless you are a tone loving guitarist or you have dampened the tone of a nice Tele this might not matter. ( which I did a year a two ago and won't do again. Bye the way getting the stuff off is also just like removing poly, you will use a fair few sanding pads oh boy does it clog them)  

SO If anyone is passing Monmouthshire, I have a litre bottle of Tru-oil here and you are welcome to pop in and grab some. I may put it on a broom stick, but I wouldn't go near any wood I was intending to make resonant guitars with. 

by all means mail me via mail@wudtone.com if you wish to explore colours. kind regards 

  

WezV

taking it a bit far there?

i have used wudtone a couple of times now, i regularly use tru-oil and i still occasionally use danish oil.  i tend to decide what i will use based on the look i am after and the wood being used 

tru-oil is awesome when used well and i have documented my method for applying it somewhere else around here.  It ends up very thin, a lot thinner than is possible with wudtone.   never had any issues with a tru-oil guitar sounding bad, they all sound better to me than any lacquer finishes

the only time i have experienced dampening with any was when i finished an acoustic top in danish oil.  It drank it up and stayed sounding dull for months, then after that it came to life again and sounds great.  

andypwudtone said:

first DO NOT use any old thinners. This is a misleading, general term, anything like naptha, turps , will give you further problems. My take is do not use any kind of thinners, cleaning agent,  even if you used a fast evaporating product like acetone/ cellulose thinners, all you are going to do is keeping clogging the wood with thinned yuck. 

 

  

lets be clear here.  the thinners will cause you more problems... if refinishing with wudtone?   it wouldn't cause him any issues if taken along with the rest of my advise... which is to go with something closer to the original oil finish to save issues with compatibility.  it was not meant as an attack on wudtone, but advise about ensuring compatibility

but whilst we are on the subject

So far I have not had much look with the coloured wudtone finishes although I am giving it the benefit of the doubt and assuming that is my fault. i know the first time was following on from a tru-oil finish and i could not get a strong colour at all.  although as well as the prior contamination with other finishes I think I also went past 240 for the sanding which is not recommended

this was it -  black magic woman on mahogany

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e31/WezV/1-17_zps0470f233.jpg

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e31/WezV/4-11_zps3a7b811c.jpg

apart from a lack of depth of colour compared to the pics on your site I also found it hard to avoid showing black sanding scratches, even though i went past the recommended 240g.

doesn't look terrible but not what i was after and doesn't have the quality feel of my tru-oil finishes.  What i want is the ability to get the quality of the tru-oil finished but with colour. however my method of wetsanding with the oil is rather destructive to any colour layers

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e31/WezV/wax3.jpg

the 2nd attempt with a deep colour wudtone is uninspiring as well.   this time i made sure the wood had no previous finish, used a lighter wood, sanding to exactly 240 grit, prepared myself for a lot of hard rubbing on the first coat etc....as far as i can tell i did it totally as advised.

maybe i just don't get it, maybe i am treating it too much like those other finishes i am used to or expecting too much from it... but i have read all the guidance numerous time now. I am not a novice with rubbed, brushed or sprayed finishes and I can't really get it to work for me.   

I do like the feel of the satin clear on maple and have done a couple of necks with that now, I would probably still use it  for a lighter finish but am wary of trying a "deep" colour again.    

octatonic

Question for Wez and Andy- when you say Danish oil do you mean Tung or polymerised Linseed oil?

ThePrettyDamned

Interesting you've struggled with wudtone, wez. I managed fine, though it was a learning process for sure. I'm definitely going to get a better result next time around (the back and sides of the jazzmaster are not as nice as the front for this reason!).

That said, I did have to sand back the wood a fair bit to get it to 320 grit, and all with the grain to hide scratches. Originally, the body was 220 grit and sanded with (I'm guessing) some kind of circular sander as there were some obvious marks.

Still, I'll not argue with you, your builds speak for themselves! Perhaps it's just one of those odd things, you just don't get on with it. I know my one effort at oiling a neck ended in absolute disaster...

WezV

octatonic said:

Question for Wez and Andy- when you say Danish oil do you mean Tung or polymerised Linseed oil?

The one i use is rustins brand danish oil.  there are others called danish oil that are not quite the same

all info on the technique and brands used is here

http://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/235/oil-finishes-little-tutorial-for-my-wet-sanded-oil-finish-technique

ThePrettyDamned said:

Still, I'll not argue with you, your builds speak for themselves! Perhaps it's just one of those odd things, you just don't get on with it. I know my one effort at oiling a neck ended in absolute disaster...

yep, I fully acknowledge it could just be me and wouldn't want to dissuade anyone from trying it for themselves

here is the emerald green wudtone attempt, and i was sure i had addressed everything that didn't work on the first attempt

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e31/WezV/temporary_zps0054ea3b.jpg

backs a bit better

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e31/WezV/temporary_zpsbd6ab7cc.jpg

octatonic

WezV said:

octatonic said:

Question for Wez and Andy- when you say Danish oil do you mean Tung or polymerised Linseed oil?

The one i use is rustins brand danish oil.  there are others called danish oil that are not quite the same

all info on the technique and brands used is here

http://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/235/oil-finishes-little-tutorial-for-my-wet-sanded-oil-finish-technique

Ah ok- so Tung Oil.

I will check out the tutorial- I need to get to grips with it.

WezV

ToneControl said:

I Danish oil my IKEA worktops made of birch. It doesn't take much sanding to get it off those

What's wrong with Danish oil for guitars? too sticky???

I had one luthier who used gun oil, that seemed ok

birch (and things like maple and beech) is a dense wood with very little grain and any finish you apply does not soak in very far. you can strip them back pretty quickly.   the same oil applied to swamp ash, mahogany, alder or basswood would penetrate much further, although we are still only talking  a mm or so but it does make the task of removing them much more difficult so compatibility must be considered for any refinish

danish oil works pretty well but isn't as durable as tru-oil.  it needs more maintenance and even the occasional re-oil. it should not be sticky at all once finished.   

gun oil probably refers to gun-stock oil - which is the main use for tru-oil

http://www.mandolinluthier.com/images/Tru-oil_bottles.jpg

mudslide73

It's basswood and I put 3/4 coats on 10 years ago. Colron themselves recommend their own wax remover.

Thanks for all the replies so far everyone.

andypwudtone

WezV said:

octatonic said:

Question for Wez and Andy- when you say Danish oil do you mean Tung or polymerised Linseed oil?

The one i use is rustins brand danish oil.  there are others called danish oil that are not quite the same

all info on the technique and brands used is here

http://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/235/oil-finishes-little-tutorial-for-my-wet-sanded-oil-finish-technique

ThePrettyDamned said:

Still, I'll not argue with you, your builds speak for themselves! Perhaps it's just one of those odd things, you just don't get on with it. I know my one effort at oiling a neck ended in absolute disaster...

yep, I fully acknowledge it could just be me and wouldn't want to dissuade anyone from trying it for themselves

here is the emerald green wudtone attempt, and i was sure i had addressed everything that didn't work on the first attempt

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e31/WezV/temporary_zps0054ea3b.jpg

backs a bit better

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e31/WezV/temporary_zpsbd6ab7cc.jpg

Hi Wez, something is clearly wrong here. Tomorrow, I will have more time to reply but meanwhile, are you cleaning the wood  / applying anything whatsoever after sanding ? here is what the last emerald isles example I received  looked like 

andypwudtone

mudslide73 said:

It's basswood and I put 3/4 coats on 10 years ago. Colron themselves recommend their own wax remover.

Thanks for all the replies so far everyone.

OK thank you , will hv more time tomorrow to reply. 

What look are you trying to achieve? kind regards 

WezV

nope,it was all factory fresh and since i couldn't guarantee they had not applied anything i resanded the whole thing with 180 and 240g.  Although it did feel like very raw maple before and i would ahve said no sealer had been applied.  I only sanded as a precaution because i had issues getting the colour to take on the other guitar and the advice seems to suggest wudtone takes best to a freshly sanded surface 

All the examples i see on ash seem to look great and get good colour,  which is why i was interested in the first place.  

mudslide73

As you can see it's awful! I was very impatient and didn't sand it properly at all. I was hoping to save it basically, I like the look of Hot Auburn, Mahogany or any of the darker colours.

I've had terrible trouble trying to get a replacement body (short scale on a Fusion) so seeing everyone's great results with modern oil finishes I thought it was time to try again.

 

Thanks for all the comments so far.

 

 

mudslide73

 

 

Some more for reference.

andypwudtone

hi Mudslide, Ok , yep these help.

pls can you also post pic of whole body as is.

kind regards

Andy Preston

andypwudtone

WezV said:

  I then give it a good rub down with thinners.    

HI Wez, before I come back to this, pls can you clarify exactly what the thinners is you are referring to?

WezV

When i refer to thinners i mean something with "cellulose thinners" written on the label.     I am currently on a large container of Fiddes Cellulose thinners but have also used other brands in the past

I have always cleaned guitars down before refinishing with some kind of cellulose thinners and never had a problem with any oil or lacquer (brushed and sprayed) finishes following on from this

The process i followed with the black mahogany strat was the same as i recommended in my first post.  It was finished with tru-oil so I scraped, sanded then clean with thinners.   The wudtone colour did not take, i repeated my stripping schedule and finished with a few light coats of black nitro, no issues.

The green maple guitar is different.  I purposely kept everything except sandpaper away from it because i didn't dare wipe it with anything that could stop the wudtone soaking in.    I didn't make the guitar, so like any purchased guitar part its possible the maker applied some sealer (i.e warmoth use a sealing oil on some parts), although there was no evidence of this I could see.  Just to be safe i resanded the guitar through 180 and 240 grits and was getting fresh maple dust all through the process.  I have shaped and sanded enough maple to know the difference between maple dust and the various dusts you get from sanding finishes.  Just to be clear no thinners touched this guitar at any point 

 

WezV

only other thing I can think with the green one is that maybe the factory that made it soaked the maple ply in something before it was pressed to shape.   anyway, i will be stripping and spraying it soon

WezV

okay, i still have some wudtone here as well as various pieces of wood i can garantee have never touched any sealer.   so I have done a test

basically i wanted to know if it was my technique stopping it working, or was it down to possible contamination on the two guitars i have tried it on (remember one of those i would swear was bare maple).

I have no deep colour left, but still have a few dregs of the black magic woman and emerald isles base coat

off to the shed to find an off cut of swamp ash, alder and maple.  i did start with the deep colour for the black but there wasn't enough, so below that we have the two base coats.  i applied as per the instructions, giving a good rub in and going back to each piece of wood 3 times as if i was going over the whole body 2-3 times

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e31/WezV/temporary_zpsc6b8fd9c.jpg

you can see its starting to work as it should.  not overly rich but that is one base coat without any of the deep colour so that is to be expected.  you can tell that it would work and look good and rich if I carried on with it.

So what does this tell me:

1) There must have been some contamination on the maple 335 that stopped wudtone colour taking. 

2) My usual methods for removing contamination (tried on the black guitar) won't work with wudtone, but will be fine for other types of finish.

3) Wudtone really does look great on swamp ash and I may come back to it for that

I will stick with my original advise to the OP.  since this guitar has previously been oiled, re-oiling is the safest option that is guaranteed to work.