Fitting in the mix sonically

PolarityMan

thomasross20 said:

F*** sake everybody has done Whistle Binkies apart from us! What is the contact for Whistle Binkies lol??? Let me know when next you play..

I did one of the worst gigs of my life in there. Was packed so what better time to suffer severe tuning stability issues?

thomasross20

Let me know next time you play, too! 

Quite a few folk from Edinburgh here!!

Grunfeld

Vaiai said:

...all said my sound is competing with the singer and vice versa and that we need to do some EQ to be out of each other's way.

Any advice on this?

Listening to the clip your singer isn't belting it out enough.  As soon as the BVs come in she's lost.  So it's not just you "competing" with her.

Vaiai

Yeah I think she's a bit nervous too but we are a new band of course and only all got toggether in May and went thru a few auditions with keyboards and guitar but didn't find anyone so we decided to do it as a 4pc which was a challenge for me but now we have 5 of us we are focused on getting out there - She can belt it out tho - maybe we need to speak about EQ on the mixer in rehearsal too. She just got herself a Bose L1 PA and we have not tried it out yet - tending to use the rehearsal room ones.

Thanks to all for their advice etc. Plenty to think about.

ICBM

It's also because the vocal is EQ'd all wrong, far too muddy and with no clarity, probably to crudely deal with feedback.

But - with respect! - your guitar is also part of the problem. Too middy in the same range as the vocal (even if that's as much due to the vocal EQ as the guitar), slightly too loud, and with too much sustain - very little in the way of gaps or dynamics so it becomes almost a continuous wall of guitar that is the loudest thing in the mix on average. You can use that sort of sound, but it needs to sit under the vocal not over the top. Having the cab on the floor probably isn't helping, you won't hear it well down there.

Sorry! It's certainly not all your fault . Far too much midrange on everything overall, in fact - unless it's just the recording. The other guitar is better, but the bass isn't really audible at all.

I'll be playing soon so you can come along and have a go at my sound too . (Not that I'll have much control over it if last time is anything to go by.)

thomasross20

I think that's good feedback and I always like to get similar - what do you think, OP?

koneguitarist

Actually I think guitar sound is not the problem, as it's quite thin and toppy to me, vocals however are the problem as well as room acoustics, but you can work with acoustics if you have a good enough eq on the mixing desk.

Her vocal is mixed too dark and sounds like someone has tried to beef it up by increasing low mids instead of giving her a lift in the presence, high mids to high end. 

Plus sounds like she is Scottish so no ones gonna understand her anyway. 

Cirrus

Just based on that clip, yeah the singer does need to be louder, and with a better EQ'd mic. You could do with being a little bit quieter, listening to how your sound balances with the drums/ bass/ other guit. Your tone is good, no issues there, and it'll cut through the mix even if it's not quite as loud.

Danny1969

OK just had a listen to the vid and but it's not really helpful because 

The mix changes when the camera moves, the closer it gets to the stage the more backline and drums and the less vocals which is normal and the reason you can't take decent audio with a moving camera. The audience further back would have heard more vocal

The camera mic is compressing the audio which is smashing the audio and not really representing what it would have sounded like on the night, listen to the level of the audience rise when the band stops and the compressor stops biting

There's isn't any low end  bass cos the camera mic isn't capable of recording any low end. On the night you would have heard more bass

The vocal treatment is really bland, like it's just a mic into the PA, no compression, no EQ, no effects. It doesn't show her vocals in the best light IMO ...... every singer can benefit from some nice vocal treatment 

@viaia don't worry though, good band, good times ............ not sure the L1 will work out for you though. I love those things for acoustic gigs and use em all the time but not so good for bands

Vaiai

Hugely appreciate this feedback guys I always think I am too loud and am always being told to turn up! The other guitarist has played for 40 yrs and he kept telling me to turn up. I am not always to keen to be too prominent tho. I am also not a fan of jangly sparkly guitar as I am not too good at playing with that sound I know I can hide behind gain sometimes but I joined a covers band so I can learn to play other styles - that was the challenge.

Recently we have discussed a lack of dynamics and this is just due to the short time we have been together and how quick we learned all the songs, we are working on using a bit more space etc. It's just a fun band tho - If I was to be doing functions or regular gigging like my mum and sister do it would be a different story and I'd have more time to really put into it. We rehearse 2hrs a week though but also run thru stuff at home.

Regarding the sound at the gig - like I say - one band an hour - 10 mins to get on and start and very basic sound going on - we played there twice in the festival and having 2 sound guys using the same setup was very revealing!

@Danny1969, the L1 is only to be used for vocals as the sort of places we'll be playing prob will only need backline  

I had my Mum at the 2nd gig, she has worked with Van Morrison and toured with RunRig and I asked for honest feedback - her focus was the vocals of course but she did say the sound guy could have done a bit more to help.

My sister also works full time as a singer and a few other friends were there from bands - I always ask for honest feedback but I'm sure it's sugar coated sometimes

Someone mentioned the cab on the floor - it did have wheels but I have since moved on to a custom made Hoffnine 1x12 and this is always elevated. I used it at Whistle binkies when the guitar was also miked up - it's a lot of learning to do even at my age Wish I had just kept playing - only got back into it 4 years ago after about 15 yr break - so still rusty but really enjoying playing again 

Thanks all for the advice - it's really invaluable

Danny1969

Vaiai said:

@Danny1969, the L1 is only to be used for vocals as the sort of places we'll be playing prob will only need backline  

Yeah I thought that but your be surprised how ineffective the L1 is in terms of powering vocals above drums and such. I mean it's a great piece of kit in terms of it's coverage and how small and light it is but something like a pair of Mackie SRM450's and 2 stands would have been a better buy for band vocals and a lot cheaper 

Vaiai

Danny1969 said:

Vaiai said:

@Danny1969, the L1 is only to be used for vocals as the sort of places we'll be playing prob will only need backline  

Yeah I thought that but your be surprised how ineffective the L1 is in terms of powering vocals above drums and such. I mean it's a great piece of kit in terms of it's coverage and how small and light it is but something like a pair of Mackie SRM450's and 2 stands would have been a better buy for band vocals and a lot cheaper 

Aww...I'm gonna get the blame again lol

PolarityMan

thomasross20 said:

Let me know next time you play, too! 

Quite a few folk from Edinburgh here!!

I live pretty much as far away as you can get from Edinburgh now

thomasross20

Where abouts?

I live outside of Edinburgh.

koneguitarist

thomasross20 said:

Where abouts?

I live outside of Edinburgh.

So do I,,,,,,,,Dorset!

thomasross20

EricTheWeary

Just back from watching the English Beat and two good supports. I was thinking about this Discussion a bit. The arrangement is such a big part of this ( and I know this partly having got this so wrong in my bands!), which to a large extent is knowing when not to play. I think a lot of people in pub level bands don't know when not to play so every song becomes intro then everybody in belting along until the end so there are no dynamics and so much turns into a loud mush. The first band on where an eight peice reggae band, basically a bunch of students but rehearsed and arranged so the vocals, guitar solos, sax solos all nice and clear - I can't imagine the venue sound guy was familiar with their songs it was just stemming from them listening to themselves. 

viz

You guys play really well, great video! I agree with others - you can't tell the true eq because of the camera mic but it sounds like you could be a tad quieter in the verses and louder in your solos, you need much more bass and less high mid, though that's also just personal preference, (the bass player could be louder too), you could turn your distortion down a bit too, and the singer needs to sing more loudly, and be turned up, then you're sorted. I'd also try micing your amp, putting it higher or angling it upwards.

Vaiai

@viz @EricTheWeary Thanks both - Definitely going to look at dynamics.

The bass on the night was huge - just using the house amp but I was impressed - that's def does not come over on the video.

Since the gig I have rolled back the gain - I play in a rock band doing Whitesnake and Van Halen, Bon Jovi etc and this is my comfort zone  

Now using a 1x12 and always on a crate or chair now

nickp

Just thinking about this thread and our previous singer.  He couldn't be heard and got lost in the mix, and he could never hear himself in the mix either even when buggering around with the EQ and stuff.

our new singer can sing.  proper.  issue went away for good.

just a thought