2 colour stain - any tips

JohnB

JB009 - see my other current thread here is getting its flamed sycamore veneers today and tomorrow. Just oiled would be ok, but I want to do a 2 colour stain - grey/black wash then sand to bring up the flames followed by an orange stain and finally danish oil finish - kind of tiger stripes with hopefully a slight burst. Problem is I dont want to lift much black when adding the orange.  I could use water based varnish with orange stain in it but I really would prefer an oil finish

Any tips most welcome

Andyjr1515

Hi John Providing that you let them completely dry before adding the oil, water based dyes (but not the paint like stains) are fine. As you probably know, I use fountain pen ink, which is water based, and then tru oil or poly varnish. Both work a treat

JohnB

Its not the oil that is the concern, but the second water based dye lifting the first, I'm wondering about washing the second colour over with a brush rather than a rag

nutbox

I done a body with the black fountain pen ink like Andy suggests and then I sanded it right back to just leave the flame figuring ,and the I used a red ink.

It came out fine no lifting at all .

WezV

your biggest issue will be stopping it looking muddy.

the black and sand back thing works best on highly figured woods but can look terrible on lightly figured wood.   although it can actually kill the 3d effect of the figure on both.  rather than looking holographic it looks fixed in place. 

I generally do a darker version of the colour i am after first, followed by a lighter version to keep the movement in the figure - but thats not really what you are after here

gibson and epiphone both did a black stain sanded back and followed by yellow stain on the boneyard les pauls

some of the highly figured gibsons looked pretty nice although you can see some muddiness in the "low" points

The less figured ones looked pretty terrible

The epiphones generally look very fake

JohnB

Thanks @WezV. Mixing the black and the orange produces quite a nice brown, Perhaps I will try using a slightly darkened colour first, then the orange, I want to retain the movement in the figure

WezV

Worth trying a very dark brown then. Black pigment is just too heavy

nutbox

Heres mine http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk170/nutbox76/Mobile Uploads/2014-06/20140623_201223_zps9wvuhbif.jpg http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk170/nutbox76/Mobile Uploads/2014-06/20140624_204842_zpsagw01w6r.jpg http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk170/nutbox76/Mobile Uploads/2014-06/20140624_210055_zpsqtobkxla.jpg

JohnB

Nice, is that sycamore or maple?

Andyjr1515

Like @WezV says, a black base can sometimes make it all look either muddy or artificial.  @nutbox's worked great (have you got some of the varnished shots you could post @nutbox?) but often it either comes out with too much black or other unwanted results.

I generally use a darker shade for the end grain, then a lighter shade of the same colour for the lighter areas.  To darken further the dark areas, just add another coat, then when dry, sand off the top.  Remember, however, how thin the veneer is...don't sand it all away!  

As long as the background application is dry and you have sanded enough of the high spots away to take the lighter colour, you are very unlikely to get any leeching to worry about.

This one (albeit this particular one is wood and not veneer) just used dark red and then lighter red (ink in both cases):

WezV

Black and red does work better

Andyjr1515

@JohnB This is probably a better illustration.  This just has green dye applied - not even sanded and re-dyed...   

Look how much deeper the colour is where the ink has soaked into the end grain of the quilting vs the much lighter absorption at the cross grain areas:

 

...and if you then sanded and reapplied, the dark areas would get even darker, contrasting even more with the light areas that would stay much the same!

JohnB

Thanks, perhaps I will just darken the orange slightly for the first coat - the veneer is the same flame as this although I think it is slightly better matched

JohnB

Having run some tests today with single and 2 colour staining, I might play it safe and go for something completely different in single colour

Andyjr1515

Hi @JohnB

Yes - I think you will get a great result with a single colour - the flame will really show through in any case but it will look much more natural.

What colour are you thinking of?

JohnB

I mixed a lilac/purple for a previous build - it looked horrible on figured sapele (that one ended up blue) but it looks great on sycamore test pieces

JohnB

Any thoughts on whether to work the stain rag parallel to the grain (across the flames)or parallel to the flames?

Andyjr1515

JohnB said:

Any thoughts on whether to work the stain rag parallel to the grain (across the flames)or parallel to the flames?

I don't think it really matters providing that it is even.  Probably easier to keep it even going parallel with the flame, but if it was me, I'd do a couple or three of coats anyway which tends to even everything out.  If it goes to dark in the light areas, just sand off the tops and apply a final light coat to tint the light areas.  Your test pieces are the best guide...

WezV

Circular motion followed by with the grain.

You always want to end going with the grain so any streaks look like wood grain, but really you shouldn't get streaks

nutbox

JohnB said:

Nice, is that sycamore or maple?

Hi sorry for the late reply,I don't seem to be getting any emails telling me there been a reply. But it is sycamore veneer .

nutbox

Here a pic varnished http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk170/nutbox76/Mobile Uploads/2014-08/20140816_163817_zps7fzcnc3q.jpg