Floyd Rose problem

RevMatt

I have a slight issue with the Floyd Rose on a recently bought guitar.

I've been using Floyds for many years and am confident in setting them up and am fairly sure this isn't a set up problem, but I'm looking to the experts for advice....

The issue is that after using the trem it doesn't return to pitch - it returns flat and out of tune with itself. A little lift to the arm seems to resolve this and it then remains at pitch.

I think that this may be down to the base plate slipping out of position on the posts and needing a little upward lift to seat properly after use - it also seems more of an issue on the treble side.

The guitar is 25 years old but in near mint condition, the bridge is a proper Schaller one and as far as I know the two posts are also original - they appear to be screw in ones with a flat / straight screw top (rather than Allan key type). I haven't removed any parts to investigate but am confident to do so if I need to.

When not using the bridge tuning is spot on and Ive set the intonation correctly etc - it is just this issue with returning to pitch after use.

Any thoughts?

Fuzzdog

My money would be on either the knife edges being a bit worn, or some kind of accumulated crud in there.

If you say it's mint after 25 years, it's probably not been used much, and nothing buggers up a Floyd quicker than not using it.  Might find just a quick clean and a tiny dab of vaseline will free it all up nicely.

Marshall_stax

I agree completely with @Fuzzdog. I'm mad keen on Floyds and 9 times out of 10 most issues I've had have been solved with a damn good clean. 

Glad I'm not the only one with Vaseline in my case either! (Que many hilarious punchlines).

Maynehead

Fuzzdog is right. If it's going flat after a dive and sharp after a pull that indicates the bridge is not returning to its original position due to friction between the knife edge and the posts.

Common causes are either the knife edges or the bridge posts are worn/corroded, or both.

Try taking the trem and bridge posts off the guitar and examining them. If they look ok then sometimes rubbing a piece of folded up high grit sand paper along the post groove, then dabbing some vaseline on the kinfe edge and along the post grooves will solve the problem.

If the bridge posts are worn then they can be cheaply replaced. If the knife edges are worn, you can sometimes get more mileage out of them by sharpening them with a round file.

FelineGuitars

Possibly knife edges but more likely that the springs at the zero point are not still stretched enough.

You'd be better of using less springs under more tension than more sproings where they end up nearly closed up at the point where the strings are at normal pitch.

If need be buy some new (quality) springs - Schaller ones like they use on the original Floyd are a good choice

RevMatt

Brilliant - some really helpful stuff there.

I'll dismantle, inspect and clean as required. It's currently set with 3 springs so I will try with 2 as well and see if the extra tension improves stability.

Will get back to you with an update once Ive had another look at this.

RevMatt

I've removed the bridge and had a look at the condition - both the knife edges and the posts looked good, but to be sure, I gave them a quick clean with a cotton bud and some eye make up remover (yes, I know...) and some gunk came off. Holding the bridge back in situ and manually pivoting it, it appeared smooth and problem free but when pushing it down (as if upward bending) revealed that the rear side of the trem arm mount snags on the edge of the block cavity - of course, this is on the treble side so fits with my theory that problem is more significant on the treble side. This was probably not an issue for the previous owner as he had the bridge sitting higher, but when I lowered the action this would have become more of a problem.

So, my next question ( @Fuzzdog @Marshall_stax @Maynehead @FelineGuitars and anyone else...) - keeping in mind that I have no specialist tools, what do you suggest for me widening the cavity a tad (it really only needs to be a fraction of a mm) neatly and with minimum risk to damaging the guitar?

Here's a picture showing where the arm mount has been catching:

http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa356/revmatt1/P1040649%201500x1125_zpsracqzt8f.jpg

Maynehead

Well, that would definitely cause the symptoms you're seeing...

If the guitar isn't too precious, I'd just wrap some 180 grit sandpaper around my finger and sand the affecting area down a bit until it no longer contacts the bridge.

Either that or shim the neck (if it's a bolt on) so that you can raise the bridge and still keep the low action, but I doubt from the marks there you can raise it enough for it not to be a problem.

FelineGuitars

solution is either by a chisel or a router,although sandpaper could work

Marshall_stax

I'd start with the sand paper and see if that solves the issue. If not, do you know anyone with a Dremel multi-tool (or similar) with a sanding head? This might be the happy medium between sanding by hand and the rather more drastic router. 

If it comes to the more drastic solution and you're not totally confident with routers etc, have someone like @FelineGuitars take care of it for you - A friend of mine tried his own cavity routing once, it didn't end well. But I guess he made that mistake so we don't have to!

RevMatt

Haha - yes, I won't be touching it with a router!!!! But a small sanding head on my drill could be a good solution - this should be within my ability :-o

Marshall_stax

Give it a go and let us know how it turns out. Just go easy. 

RevMatt

Gents, thank you all for your help and advice - all sorted!

I took it gently with the side of a drill bit and that seems to have done the trick. As you'll see in the picture I only had to give it a tiny bit of extra width, but it's resolved the issue. Having now reassembled the guitar I've set it up with lighter gauge strings so also followed the 'one less spring' advice. It's now playing great and returning to pitch smoothly.

http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa356/revmatt1/P1040650%201500x1125_zpsrs4ixrow.jpg 

And just to put it in context:

http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa356/revmatt1/P1040630%201500x1061_zps1i5tsuit.jpg

The guitar is a Patrick Eggle from 1991, but for those who are interested, it's not a production model. It may well have been a prototype or an early build before the company really got off the ground - either way, it's a cracking guitar :-)

Thanks again to all who offered advice.

Marshall_stax

Win!

Great looking guitar mate, have a wow. 

Andy

Andyjr1515

Excellent result - and a great looking guitar!