Backing tracks, anyone here use them

Rocker

A lot of two piece or solo pub musicians use backing tracks these days.  As a guitar player of sorts, it unnerves me to see a singer armed with an acoustic guitar, sounding like a six piece band complete with percussion!  Of course the punters don't notice or perhaps they don't know any better.  But to me that is cheating.  Just because the musician or duo 'get away' with it, does not make it right.  IMHO.  Music should be real, that is played live.  Otherwise pubs ought to hire a disco.

Discuss.

thecolourbox

Depends what you use them for, have used them for drum tracks like the kills and it's very effective, no way you'd hey that sounds out of a real drummer

siremoon

We are a duo and use backing tracks for drums and bass but we do actually record them ourselves rather than nick them off the internet. 

We are both in our 50s, newish players and finding our way however we are motivated and want to do things as well as we can.  Drummers and bass players seem to be in short supply and those of our own age tend to be very experienced and are not interested in working with a bunch of newbies, equally younger ones are not interested in working with old gits like us.  We did try out a few but basically they were awful or unreliable or both and it was very frustrating indeed.  Our choice was very simple, give up or use backing tracks.  We chose the latter. 

As to whether it is cheating is a matter of opinion but I'd rather cheat than not play at all.  What I will say is that no-one is going to turn up to hear to one of our backing tracks.  They do however turn up to hear our guitar playing and singing.

Rocker

I understand your argument @siremoon, but my point is to use real players rather than pre recorded sounds for a gig. My wife commented that the music the band played during the break sounded the same as the band themselves. And it sounded simply awful. No excuse to use low bit rate MP3 files for backing tracks. Or interval music. Most of the punters seemed unaware of the poor sound, all they wanted was lots of pints of lager. And to jump around to the fast arm waving music. So why should we bother getting and using decent guitars, amps and FX pedals if no one actually listens to the sound?

Danny1969

I've just done some keyboard parts for a band who basically want to cover some songs that use keyboards. They haven't been able to get a keys player so I've recorded the parts against a click track and now they will use that live. It's not as good as 100% live but needs must and all that

I did a spell in the nineties in a duo and we recorded the drums and keys and put it on minidisc. I didn't like it much though, going out as a duo felt more like work than going out as a band does

ash96

I'm in a few functions bands. A 5 piece (vocals, guitar, keys, bass drums) and also a 4 piece (Vocals, guitar, bass, drums), and in the 4 piece we use some backing tracks for keyboard / percussion parts to add to the songs we play live. The tracks allow us to do some songs that we couldn't do normally, and generally just make a lot of the other tracks sound better / fuller.

From a functions point of view, it helps you sound better / fuller while keeping the costs down for clients and still giving a 'band' sound and performance. 

Some people may call it 'cheating', I see it more as a business thing. I earn 100% of my income from music related work (and have done pretty much since I graduated uni), I wouldn't want to have a fully backing track gig as I personally don't think it sounds good, but if you use decent quality tracks it usually makes the sound better.

siremoon

Rocker said:

I understand your argument @siremoon, but my point is to use real players rather than pre recorded sounds for a gig. My wife commented that the music the band played during the break sounded the same as the band themselves. And it sounded simply awful. No excuse to use low bit rate MP3 files for backing tracks. Or interval music. Most of the punters seemed unaware of the poor sound, all they wanted was lots of pints of lager. And to jump around to the fast arm waving music. So why should we bother getting and using decent guitars, amps and FX pedals if no one actually listens to the sound?

As I said you're entitled to your opinion. 

We use wav files not mp3s.  

Rocker

Good on you @siremoon and to anyone else who makes a living from music. And I understand that a few recorded bits will add to the sound. If the punters don't mind....

stefjudd

I'm in a 3 piece covers band (guitar, bass, drums). During the 2 hours we do there's 7 tracks where we have clicks for some keys and percussion parts just to allow us to do some tracks we wouldn't normally attempt. The most important part is staying as a 3 piece to make enough dosh out of pub/bar gigs to pay the Mortgage. Anyhow- I never liked the idea of using tracks so to make me feel better about it we have a life-size cardboard cut out of David Dickinson with a keytar on stage, simply to make a joke out of it for the punters' sake... You should just be able to make him out at the back of the photo (sorry for the crap photo quality)... http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd93/stefanjudd/image.jpeg

Danny1969

@stefjudd

Lol that's cool

Another option for people who want a bit of keys and some other stuff is to use a Roland SPD. Although really designed for drummers to hit I use mine with my feet. I record the keys parts into the pads then just hit the pad with my foot when required. This only works with non time based stuff, for the horn licks in Uptown Funk ect your still gonna have to use a click but for adding keys pads under guitar solos and adding string parts to songs it works a treat

randomhandclaps

We used them for a while but the drummer kept going out of time.  It was then that the Mrs RHC agreed with me that it was time to sack the drummer.

Cirrus

We've got some - we're a full band with drums, bass, guitar and three vocals but in a typical 45 minute set, we'll probably play two songs that have some backing element - a sound effect, drum machine, backing synth pad, noise collage aspect or in one case a bastardised Churchill speech.

I think in the 21st century there's no issue with using technology to enhance a performance as long as it enhances the show. When I play music live my two absolute goals are, in no particular order;

- Doing justice to the songs in the setlist.

- Making sure the audience enjoy the show.

There's nothing there that automatically makes backing tracks an issue, though of course if they're doing too much legwork the audience will start to think we're "cheating" and stop enjoying themselves. Exactly where that point is surely just depends on the act.

stefjudd

Cirrus said:

We've got some - we're a full band with drums, bass, guitar and three vocals but in a typical 45 minute set, we'll probably play two songs that have some backing element - a sound effect, drum machine, backing synth pad, noise collage aspect or in one case a bastardised Churchill speech.

I think in the 21st century there's no issue with using technology to enhance a performance as long as it enhances the show. When I play music live my two absolute goals are, in no particular order;

- Doing justice to the songs in the setlist.

- Making sure the audience enjoy the show.

There's nothing there that automatically makes backing tracks an issue, though of course if they're doing too much legwork the audience will start to think we're "cheating" and stop enjoying themselves. Exactly where that point is surely just depends on the act.

Agree completely.

GavRichList

as do I. We use them, and whilst we're in the process of moving towards more live looping and less backing, I have no problem with it whatsoever. Firstly, we wrote and recorded it all so I dont see it as cheating, and as above, it's about doing justice to the material - If it means some triggered parts via the laptop, then so be it. We'd all love to do it like Battles, but a HUGE amount of tech is required to do so. Yes, ultimately it's more impressive if you pull it off, but maybe only to muso nerds such as ourselves; I'm reasonably confident that 80% of Joe Public couldnt tell what is played and what is backed.

EricTheWeary

I remember going to see Queen and they used backing tracks at several points. It did annoy me at the time, although without them there were songs that wouldn't have sounded very much like the recorded versions. Maybe now instead I'd still be complaining 25 years later that I saw Queen and they didn't do Bo Rap...

I think for people trying to make a living or reasonable second income out of playing the pub/club circuit then solo or duo plus backing tracks probably makes more sense than a full on band. There's a chap I know a little who plays similar venues to us but has a lot more gigs than us so I guess he's earning £600 most weeks by himself. I think what he does is a bit shit (so so vocals, guitar strum along, backing tracks) but there's obviously an audience. I've seen people who do similar stuff for weddings - it's smaller, cheaper, easier to control (no drum kit or major sound mix issues) and playing to people who wouldn't know a live band from a hole in the ground.

It is what it is although live music for me is very much about people playing warts and all so someone singing to backing tapes has limited appeal. Our keyboardist plays in another band and says they make less mistakes than us (although that's no major achievement) but because they are so concerned with hitting the right notes it's a bit lifeless. Rocknroll people, not a chamber recital. \m/

GavRichList

genre dictates this argument massively; seldom will you see an electronic band doing it 100% live.

Danny1969

Going back to the SPD and similar I mentioned, I think there's an advantage to triggering samples as and when needed rather than playing to a rigid click backing. I mean with the samples you still have to be at the right tempo but if you want to hang the verse out or take another chorus you can, but if you deviate from a pre recorded BT the whole thing is fucked generally ........ I remember one gig when the normal reliable minidisc jumped in the middle of Angels and from then on we were screwed as it jumped a whole section and we had no idea where we landed

Rocker

I can understand that some of you guys use backing tracks to fill out the sound.  That seems reasonable to me, my choice of the word "cheating" was ill thought out, apologies for that.  But when a duo, one a singer and the other played an acoustic guitar, sounded like ABBA, CCR, and just about every band that ever had people jumping around dancing and arm waving, that is unreal.  That is not 'right'. That is the situation I find objectionable.  And I am all for live music.  I played live in pubs 35+ years ago.  It is hard work.  Our efforts did not always sound like the records.  The chords may well have been wrong.  But it was real and the people seemed happy with our efforts.

bobliefeld

We use them (2 piece band) as we want electronic, dance type beats and samples.  I think anything is fine as long as it sounds great.  Downloading backing tracks for a covers band is probably a bit tacky though.  

Sadly someone stole my laptop so I've got to program them all over again.  Keep backups !

ESBlonde

We've had the audience educated to not notice the band for decades, you can't blame them. TOTP, Sinatra, Bassey, you name it, in TV studios time after time a singer in a large space (with no mic?) and no musicians in sight. Then all the MTV videos of people miming and finally The X voice come factor dancing where all the session guys remain hidden. Joe and Mary public have no idea, except they are used to quality sound and lighting plus a class performance. So that's what we are up against, that and 'Stars' playing live with gloves on!!!

I have had the pleasure (and pain) of playing in an 8 piece band with brass and when that band and 4 part harmonies cut in the hairs stand up on the back of your neck even if you do the same song 50 times week after week. But feeding those people and keeping them 'together' is a massive pain and the size of the band precludes mast pubs and some other venues which others consider fun.

Backing tracks, I have done a duet (self on vocals and acoustic guitar) plus female vocalist. We used to do the first set with just the guitar, but as things moved on and rocked up we added tracks, by the end of the night I'd be mime/playing guitar solos on the acoustic ;-)  Like I said people have been brainwashed.

I have seen pro bands that are three piece outfits that need nothing more, The Ivy League come to mind. Bass, drums, guitar and all three sing. The harmonies were full, tight and completely orchestrated the soundscape, you wanted for nothing. OK they did old school songs but they were so far from the quality of most pub bands you could see how they lived off their craft for decades.

RocknRollDave

I've done two duo gigs with backing tracks. Both were excruciating from where I was standing but in both cases the client was happy, which is what matters most. To be honest, both gigs were short notice, so underprepared. I certainly wouldn't rush to do it again, but if nothing else, it was singing practice for me...