Backline? How much do you hear?

TheDarkLord

I mean, in a pro gig situation, like watching a band at Portsmouth Guildhall or The Brighton Dome.  Band on stage, big PA, all of the players have in-ears.  

The guitarist will often have a full stack or a double full stack.  Always with mics in front of one or two of the cabs.  I know it is then sent through the PA - but does anyone end up hearing anything that comes out of the guitar cabs?  Wouldn't that interfere with the sound out of the PA?  Do the people in the mosh pit get a bad mix with the sound coming form two places?  The guitarist has in-ears, so he surely doesn't need to hear it?

Wouldn't it be more sensible to have a smaller combo off stage?  I genuinely don't know the answer to this stuff, so if anyone has any experience, I'd be interested to know.

Danny1969

With in-ears you only hear the mix that's being piped through to your ears plus any ambiance from mics set up to capture a bit of vibe. You don't hear your amp behind you and just as well because you can be a long way from it ..... and on a big stage being just 6 or so metres away from your amp means you hear the sound from it slightly after you play. The further you move away from it the worse it gets. 

Generally you have in fill speakers at the front of the stage to serve the punters who are too close to hear the PA stacks. 

With today's IEM monitoring you only need a tiny amp and yeah it doesn't have to be onstage. A couple of guys I work with have now ditched normal amps altogether in favour of sims 

thomasross20

I'd prefer a small amp mic'd up with IEMs like Danny does but it's not happening with my band...

ICBM

One of the best guitar sounds I've ever heard on stage was Belinda Carlisle at the Edinburgh Playhouse in 1987 - huge PA, but I was right up against the stage so I could hear the guitarist's amp (a Marshall 100W head with two cabs, although side-by-side not stacked - the rack case with his effects units was on top of the other cab) directly. I don't think it was fully cranked since he had a clean sound at times, but it sounded fantastic.

Of course being a few feet away and level with Belinda's knees made that gig memorable in other ways too . But I do really remember how good the guitar sound was.

I still prefer to have a medium volume on stage. I don't like hearing all my sound through wedge monitors, and although I've never tried IEMs live I hate headphone mixes for practicing and recording so I have no desire to find out. In small venues I just don't see the point anyway - the drums are always going to be the limiting factor and it makes no sense to me to make them the only thing that's less in the mix than anything else.

I certainly don't want to fill a big room with the backline either, but that's not the same thing.

Danny1969

ICBM said:

I still prefer to have a medium volume on stage. I don't like hearing all my sound through wedge monitors, and although I've never tried IEMs live I hate headphone mixes for practicing and recording so I have no desire to find out. In small venues I just don't see the point anyway - the drums are always going to be the limiting factor and it makes no sense to me to make them the only thing that's less in the mix than anything else.

I certainly don't want to fill a big room with the backline either, but that's not the same thing.

It's protection from the drums we need really, monitoring aside. Some of the gigs I do the stages are so small my head is 50cm away from the cymbals

frictionfraction

Done it all ways... on stage, off stage, mics, dis etc.  The most satisfying way for me is always a combo than provides me with my mix so investing in a combo stand that sets the combo at an angle aimed at my head is essential. I cant believe more guitarists dont use these.  SIMS and offstage is fantastic if you have a great PA/soundman but lets be honest how many of us have access to that.  

Danny1969

frictionfraction said:

Done it all ways... on stage, off stage, mics, dis etc.  The most satisfying way for me is always a combo than provides me with my mix so investing in a combo stand that sets the combo at an angle aimed at my head is essential. I cant believe more guitarists dont use these.  SIMS and offstage is fantastic if you have a great PA/soundman but lets be honest how many of us have access to that.  

Things have moved on these days, you can control and set your IEM mix from your phone so you don't need to involve anyone else really. The sound guys we use only do the FOH sound, all we need from them is the WEP key to the router which in our own regular bands we have anyway