economy picking

Barney

who finds it harder going from bottom strings to top...
been working on it and it seems a lot easier for example when i play a scale going from the top E string down the scale than going up the scale...

ElectroDan

I find it difficult to descend scales with it as I tend to slant the pick downwards.

Recently I've made some real advances with Economy picking and added some cool new stuff to my repertoire.

I'm experimenting with upward pick slanting to see what I can squeeze out of alternating between the two, but I'm a long way off conquering it yet.

Barney

ElectroDan;860412" said:

I find it difficult to descend scales with it as I tend to slant the pick downwards.Recently I've made some real advances with Economy picking and added some cool new stuff to my repertoire.I'm experimenting with upward pick slanting to see what I can squeeze out of alternating between the two, but I'm a long way off conquering it yet.

maybe we should compare notes ... i find the opposite harder.....iv found though that my alternate picking needs to be fairly good before attempting economy

iv been going through a phase of just using alternate ...my main thing is legato and hybrid...i just need to improve quite a bit on economy ...so here goes the next couple of months

octatonic

Assuming you mean bottom strings to mean the ones lowest in pitch, I found it harder to descend with economy.

I've been doing it long enough now that it is mostly second nature.

Work on 3 note per string patterns- mixolydian mode is a good one where you don't have to do much with your fretting hand and you can just concentrate on the picking.

Barney

octatonic;864213" said:

Assuming you mean bottom strings to mean the ones lowest in pitch, I found it harder to descend with economy.I've been doing it long enough now that it is mostly second nature.

Work on 3 note per string patterns- mixolydian mode is a good one where you don't have to do much with your fretting hand and you can just concentrate on the picking.

yeah its from lowest in pitch up....i find coming back down fairly natural which is a bit annoying cos you would think you just need to reverse things ...it feels coming down i have a lot more control...

iv been using 3nps scales for these but also 2 and 3 notes as in position scales ..that still work ok coming down...i want to be able to mix and match the different techniques iff possible .... i must try harder

carlos

I slant both ways if you know what I mean.

I play this pattern up and down the fretboard, from bottom strings to top, move up a fret, from top to bottom, etc

313131

Going from bottom to top that'd be 3 notes on the bottom E, then 1 on the A, 3 on the D, etc. Then going from top to bottom, it's 3 notes on top E, 1 on B, etc. When going from bottom to top I start on a downstroke, so when I move strings I'm always downpicking across 3 strings, then top to bottom I start on an upstroke, so when I move strings I'm up-picking across 3 strings. It's a good exercise to get muscle memory on this.

Barney

carlos;864233" said:

I slant both ways if you know what I mean.

I play this pattern up and down the fretboard, from bottom strings to top, move up a fret, from top to bottom, etc313131Going from bottom to top that'd be 3 notes on the bottom E, then 1 on the A, 3 on the D, etc. Then going from top to bottom, it's 3 notes on top E, 1 on B, etc. When going from bottom to top I start on a downstroke, so when I move strings I'm always downpicking across 3 strings, then top to bottom I start on an upstroke, so when I move strings I'm up-picking across 3 strings. It's a good exercise to get muscle memory on this.

yeah ..iv been slanting at a angle when going up the scale as in the point i pick with angled towards the lower string ....but coming back down the pick is straight but twisted a touch so im not flat on with the strings iff you know what i mean...thanks for them exercises they sound good

ElectroDan

I have descending patterns that are faster than my ascending ones. They tend to combine picking and legato techniques and sound really fluid. But all my patterns and techniques (that use economy) only use downward economy strokes.

It's not that I feel like there's a gaping hole in my ability, I'm just interested to see if learning to switch to upward pick slanting and back will open up some new cool ideas. May get me a little closer to Gambale level sweeping too... or not.

 

Catthan

I've been spending quite some time on my picking lately my experience so far is

You can economy pick going up  and blend in some legato (or do a stroke less) so that:

Going up (high strings) you sweep with a downstroke

Going down you change strings after an upstroke OR change strings sweeping up with an upstroke. 

Adjusting the pick slant will help.

Adding hammer ons and pull offs (or not picking everything in a single string) can help bring the picking hand at the right position for the most economical next move instead of adjusting the melody to facilitate a certain technique.

If the melody or pattern I am working is fundamentally weird for the picking hand then I try rearranging the fingering and may end up with smth like 3nps with stretches in 1 string, then 1 or 2 notes on the next and so on.

It's not 100% economy but it is very effective and easy to maintain and control the tempo at lower speeds 

The other thing I realise about economy picking is that it's not strictly about altered and sweep but rather the most economical way to pick. To me that means sweep when I can, don't pick when I can't and the rest is altered picking.

Roland

Cathan's right. Don't get hung up on one particular technique. Think about the sound that you're trying to achieve, and use the appropriate stroke and fingering.

Clarky

the thing with this type of playing [as with any other] is that playing it with scales is one thing

using it in anger with real licks is quite another..

when I'm building licks I tend to use what ever method I need to at any given moment..

this means that within a single lick I may switch between alt picking, economy and legato

I just do what I have to in order to make the lick work, and then experiment with parts of it to find which technique sounds / feels best to me..

it's not an absolute science

ElectroDan

Clarky said:

the thing with this type of playing [as with any other] is that playing it with scales is one thing

using it in anger with real licks is quite another..

when I'm building licks I tend to use what ever method I need to at any given moment..

this means that within a single lick I may switch between alt picking, economy and legato

I just do what I have to in order to make the lick work, and then experiment with parts of it to find which technique sounds / feels best to me..

it's not an absolute science

I agree completely. The more I learn these techniques and practice my own little exercises, the better I am able to link it all up.

Barney

Clarky;865192" said:

the thing with this type of playing [as with any other] is that playing it with scales is one thingusing it in anger with real licks is quite another..

when I'm building licks I tend to use what ever method I need to at any given moment..this means that within a single lick I may switch between alt picking, economy and legatoI just do what I have to in order to make the lick work, and then experiment with parts of it to find which technique sounds / feels best to me..it's not an absolute science

yeah...i agree i do tend to use a combination of different things to get the sound im after but it seems economy picking doesn't really come into it much .
.iv mainly been a legato type of player for most of what i do ....but then got into some hybrid then later i have been concentrating on my alternate that has always been lacking for me but getting there now .... it seems to be all mixing together well...apart from going up the scale ill have to take a good look at it....iv seen different players using motion from the wrist and others from the thumb and finger movement ...with the latter looking a lot more relaxed...

Clarky

In my case, alt picking is the default and forms the core of my playing

from there on, the others are essentially alternatives that I'll explore if I think that alt picking isn't really working for a given moment in a lick..

and if I'm playing notes with long-ish note values [a melody line rather than a lick], I'll almost exclusively use upstrokes