Any Motörbike riders here?

Haych

Sporky said:

I just bought myself an M1000RR. Haven't been on a motorbike in 40 years or do, so I'm starting small. 

https://youtu.be/3WAOxKOmR90

thebreeze

Sporky said:

I just bought myself an M1000RR. Haven't been on a motorbike in 40 years or so, so I'm starting small.

 

I bet that’s harder to build than the real thing!

guitargeek62

I’m in Tenerife this week and will be renting a bike here on Tues to ride around and see the sights. The roads look incredible, I’m a little excited!

thebreeze

Is counter-steering a mandatory skill for anyone on a motorbike?  Is it easy to practise without falling off all the time and wrecking your bike if you're a beginner?

Haych

thebreeze said:

Is counter-steering a mandatory skill for anyone on a motorbike?  Is it easy to practise without falling off all the time and wrecking your bike if you're a beginner?

Pretend you never heard the phrase. You can’t ride any bike without countersteering, it’s just how they work. You can consciously practise it, but you’ll do it subconsciously and automatically anyway. 

thebreeze

Haych said:

thebreeze said:

Is counter-steering a mandatory skill for anyone on a motorbike?  Is it easy to practise without falling off all the time and wrecking your bike if you're a beginner?

Pretend you never heard the phrase. You can’t ride any bike without countersteering, it’s just how they work. You can consciously practise it, but you’ll do it subconsciously and automatically anyway. 

Okay, thank you, that's interesting.  I do a lot of cycling and I'm not consciously aware of it - is that because I'm not going fast enough or am I doing it on a bicycle too but just unaware of it?

Kittyfrisk

As @Haych says, I wouldn't get too bothered by it. It is an explanation of what you do anyway.
A bit like applying physics topics such as gyroscopic rotation when referring to how the bike handles going round corners...
https://auto.howstuffworks.com/motorcycle4.htm

Haych

thebreeze said:

Haych said:

thebreeze said:

Is counter-steering a mandatory skill for anyone on a motorbike?  Is it easy to practise without falling off all the time and wrecking your bike if you're a beginner?

Pretend you never heard the phrase. You can’t ride any bike without countersteering, it’s just how they work. You can consciously practise it, but you’ll do it subconsciously and automatically anyway. 

Okay, thank you, that's interesting.  I do a lot of cycling and I'm not consciously aware of it - is that because I'm not going fast enough or am I doing it on a bicycle too but just unaware of it?

Possibly a bit of both. I think below about 12 mph the countersteering thing doesn’t work the same, but chances are you’re doing it and you just don’t know you are. 

It’s a bit of a contentious topic among some riders, who claim countersteering doesn’t exist. 

The principle is simple though, say you want to turn left; to do so you need to make the bike lean left, and to do that you need to turn the bars slightly to the right, which naturally tips the bike left as the weight shifts the opposite direction and allows you to turn left. It’s momentary and a completely unconscious process but without it, it’s impossible to steer a bike at speed. 

There’s a veritasium video that explains it really well, hold on, I’ll see if I can find it…… 

Here it is:

https://youtu.be/9cNmUNHSBac

I don’t recall if it specifically mentions countersteering but the principle is explained very well. 

thebreeze

Thanks chaps, that's reassured me a lot.

Dominic

@Haych is spot on ......it's totally intuitive to some degree and happens automatically .
The only time you would need to very consciously do it is if you are a seriously fast experienced rider /track / circuit day person and you have gone into a turn too openly and are starting to run wide or really need to tighten your line / avoid another bike that's running in front etc .In that situation a strong push will cant the angle of lean down especially if you push down on the same footpeg and shift your weight and twist your head more into the bend.

sinbaadi

Kittyfrisk said:

As @Haych says, I wouldn't get too bothered by it. It is an explanation of what you do anyway.
A bit like applying physics topics such as gyroscopic rotation when referring to how the bike handles going round corners...
https://auto.howstuffworks.com/motorcycle4.htm

The "it's all gyroscopes" thing has been disproven many times, in many ways, as the primary steering factor.  By far the greatest influence on bike lean-angle is the act of steering the contact patch out from below the centre of gravity.

robinbowes

Re: counter-steering...

Most of my early riding was offroad (schoolboy motocross racing), plus a 50 when I was 16, then a 125 at 17 (I also took my Dad's BSA A7 twin out when he was away, but shhh, don't tell him)

I found it really useful to understand some of the theory behind riding when I got a bike again a few years ago. It helped me improve my riding considerably.

I agree though, it's something that you do intuitively to a degree.

R.

Kittyfrisk

sinbaadi said:

Kittyfrisk said:

As @Haych says, I wouldn't get too bothered by it. It is an explanation of what you do anyway.
A bit like applying physics topics such as gyroscopic rotation when referring to how the bike handles going round corners...
https://auto.howstuffworks.com/motorcycle4.htm

The "it's all gyroscopes" thing has been disproven many times, in many ways, as the primary steering factor.  By far the greatest influence on bike lean-angle is the act of steering the contact patch out from below the centre of gravity.

You are actually agreeing with my point  Don't over think things that people say that sound scientific.

Corvus

Brrr ... went out the other day, following unknown roads and generally wandering. Was cold and the cold wind made itself felt. Most of me was OK bar the icy strips down my chest through the jacket zip, but hands were too cold - anyone use or has tried heated gloves? I am tempted by the idea.

Dominic

Nice Scoot ......can't beat the SandS shorty on there ........those pipes must sound good but I just can't hack them anymore myself ......ok for 5 minutes but then they just annoy me .......I'm guessing around '96......883 to 1200 conversion ?

Corvus

Cheers, it's a Dyna 1340, '97. Yes the pipes were too loud stock, I fettled some removable baffles in there that's quietened them a fair lot. Still quite loud so going to add some fluff wrap and see how that goes. It now runs loads smoother in most revs as a bonus, less overrun popping too.

TheBigDipper

Just a little comment about countersteering. IIRC, theCalifornia Superbike School used to have a bike just for countersteering deniers. It had two sets of handlebars, one normal, one fixed. If you wanted, you were invited to take a  fairly safe bend with lots of run off and just use your body weight to make the bike lean rather than the steering. No-one could get the bike round the bend using the fixed bars and all ended up just going straight onto the tarmac runoff area.

but, at speed, the amount of countersteering is tiny and unconscious for most of us. 

jaytmon

Corvus said:

Brrr ... went out the other day, following unknown roads and generally wandering. Was cold and the cold wind made itself felt. Most of me was OK bar the icy strips down my chest through the jacket zip, but hands were too cold - anyone use or has tried heated gloves? I am tempted by the idea.

I have heated grips now, so don’t use heated gloves any more but I did buy a pair of 30seven ones that are battery powered and have the heating elements on the back of the fingers. Pretty effective for when I didn’t have heated grips, you just have to remember to charge them. 

Also tried the Gerbing ones on display at the show - the gloves are bulky but the level of heat was pretty nuts. Really warm. They also have an insane heat mode that requires a secret button sequence to unlock along with a disclaimer that if you burn your fingers it’s your own fault. 

TL;DR yes they work!

Haych

TheBigDipper said:

Just a little comment about countersteering. IIRC, theCalifornia Superbike School used to have a bike just for countersteering deniers. It had two sets of handlebars, one normal, one fixed. If you wanted, you were invited to take a  fairly safe bend with lots of run off and just use your body weight to make the bike lean rather than the steering. No-one could get the bike round the bend using the fixed bars and all ended up just going straight onto the tarmac runoff area.

but, at speed, the amount of countersteering is tiny and unconscious for most of us. 

I was never a denier, but after I heard about counter steering I had to try it for myself, if you know what I mean.

I got up to a decent speed on a straight road and gently nudged the bars forward on the left side - essentially pointing the front wheel to the right.  Immediately the bike veered left.  Tried it the other way by nudging the right bar forwards and the bike veered right.

Quite an odd thing to think about, and to see in action, but the physics does not lie.

As for heated gloves, I've not got any myself, I have a thick pair of winter gloves which seem to do a good job of keeping the cold out.  I have heated grips, too, but don't use them often.  I agree that heated gloves seem like a good idea, how practical they are is something I cannot answer.  

And given my propensity at losing stuff, I'd be gutted if I bought an expensive pair of heated gloves and lost one.

What about bar mitts?  A lot of people swear by them - I think I'd find it a bit alien at first not being able to see my hands and what they were doing, but you don't need to so I think I'd probably get used to it.

TheBigDipper

Corvus said:

Brrr ... went out the other day, following unknown roads and generally wandering. Was cold and the cold wind made itself felt. Most of me was OK bar the icy strips down my chest through the jacket zip, but hands were too cold - anyone use or has tried heated gloves? I am tempted by the idea.

My bike has heated grips, which are great for chilly summer evenings if you find yourself still out but with just summer gloves. For winter, I use a Keiss heated vest (inc. arms and neck heating) that means my heated core doesn't shut down blood flow to my fingers and toes. I don't need to layer up as much, either. It's great.