Any Motörbike riders here?

AK99

^ Apologies - Rocket Ron was on a current works 500 GP bike in that, one of the proper fire-breathing beasts

Foster

I started learning a just before lockdown, did my CBT, got a little 125 and found it somewhat difficult to get to grips with, though i gained a bit more confidence riding around on my own.

I then re-did my CBT, passed my theory with no problems and asked my instructor about doing the direct access course. The conversation was very much "I do 4 day and 3 day courses, up to you which one you do.". I eventually signed up for the 4 day course.

What a horrible experience.

We did a bit of the off-road section on a school playground, told how easy it was and you can do it one-handed (which he demonstrated a couple of times), the other rider asked which bay is best to park (as you have to manually handle it to the other and then go through the slalom) and the instructors response was "I don't give a fuck which one you park in". He spent most of time ranting about how he hates teaching people who can't ride a motorbike and how he throws people off the CBT.

I found the bike very, very different to my 125 (footpegs further back so a different seating position, front brake really keen, etc). Struggled with the u-turn but got there after a few goes. When we went to a known side-road to try the faster stuff i managed to come off the bike during a u-turn. The response from my instructor was to shout and belittle me, ranting about how i'll have to pay for every repair no matter how minor it was.

At that point I left the course, I didn't get any money back but at that point i no longer cared. The thought of getting on my 125 no longer appealed to me and i've recently sold it.

Moe_Zambeek

Well that sucks, @Foster what a horrible experience to have to go through. Completely inappropriate. I know it may be too late now but riding is amazing, please don’t give up because of one arsehole instructor. Also, if the instructor is not the owner I’d be on them for some form of refund. Not good enough to treat customers like that.

Foster

Moe_Zambeek said:

Well that sucks, @Foster what a horrible experience to have to go through. Completely inappropriate. I know it may be too late now but riding is amazing, please don’t give up because of one arsehole instructor. Also, if the instructor is not the owner I’d be on them for some form of refund. Not good enough to treat customers like that.

The instructor is the owner, it's a one man show.

I'm happy to not get on a bike again, i've got the van which is a makeshift camper. It is infinitely better than a bike as it's got a kettle in it.

All I need now is to rig up a makeshift auto-drive thing so i can make a brew on the motorway. I think some pool noodles around the bumpers and a brick on the accelerator should do the trick

AK99

That's a shame, especially after having made the commitment in terms of buying a bike and paying for training. What a D1ckwad of an instructor.

You were unlucky by the sound of things. My brother did the equivalent of the Direct Access thing in Ireland, and got an excellent instructor who tailored his approach to the ability of the individual riders. For the more experienced types who just needed to go through the formalities moreso than a huge amount of skills development, he spent a percentage of time on the stuff you needed for the bike test itself - and then a separate piece which he described as 'what's not in the test, but what you need to do to stay alive" - things like staying out of car driver's blindspots and overtaking as quickly as possible to minimise time in the danger zones pre and in-overtake. and suchlike.

I wish you'd got a better one.

thebreeze

Foster said:

I started learning a just before lockdown, did my CBT, got a little 125 and found it somewhat difficult to get to grips with, though i gained a bit more confidence riding around on my own.

I then re-did my CBT, passed my theory with no problems and asked my instructor about doing the direct access course. The conversation was very much "I do 4 day and 3 day courses, up to you which one you do.". I eventually signed up for the 4 day course.

What a horrible experience.

We did a bit of the off-road section on a school playground, told how easy it was and you can do it one-handed (which he demonstrated a couple of times), the other rider asked which bay is best to park (as you have to manually handle it to the other and then go through the slalom) and the instructors response was "I don't give a fuck which one you park in". He spent most of time ranting about how he hates teaching people who can't ride a motorbike and how he throws people off the CBT.

I found the bike very, very different to my 125 (footpegs further back so a different seating position, front brake really keen, etc). Struggled with the u-turn but got there after a few goes. When we went to a known side-road to try the faster stuff i managed to come off the bike during a u-turn. The response from my instructor was to shout and belittle me, ranting about how i'll have to pay for every repair no matter how minor it was.

At that point I left the course, I didn't get any money back but at that point i no longer cared. The thought of getting on my 125 no longer appealed to me and i've recently sold it.

What a miserable experience, sorry to hear that.  The first training place I rang up to organise some initial training with, the guy said, "I'm fed up with teaching novices."  At least he forewarned me I suppose, but there was no way I was going to be trained by someone with that attitude.  I rang round and eventually settled on Biketrain Wales who I had to travel a bit further for but was well worth it.  They were really good.

thebreeze

AK99 said:

Dominic said:

^ The difference between a decent racer and a decent rider is huge.........on small twisty circuits like Snetterton anybody would put in a better time on a 400 than a big bike unless they were semi-pro level.
I used to race a 400rr (baby blade ) in the 90s and would get a better lap time on that than any other bike no matter how big the circuit ....loads of bigger bikes would take me on a long straight but I would always be in front of them 100m after the next corner.

If you're ever at a loose end with a wee bit of time - have a look at few laps of this.

An open class battle at Kirkistown between local lad Gary Cowan on a TZ250 and Ron Haslam on a works RC30, and somebody else on a works Rotary Norton:



Crap quality, but one of the best races I think I've ever seen

That was amazing.

Haych

Sorry to learn about your experience @Foster, that kind of behaviour from an instructor in unacceptable, I'd be in touch with the DVSA or whoever certifies the instructors and complaining like a drain.  I'd also be writing reviews on Google, Facebook, TripAdvisor, whatever, and trying to steer people away from him.

My instructor was a one man show but was entirely the opposite.  I didn't like him much as a person but as a motorcycle instructor he was very good.

I found the direct access course a struggle.  It's a lot to take in in a very short space of time.  I didn't get a bike after doing my CBT, so I went straight from CBT to riding a Suzuki SV650 - the machine was better in every way to ride than the little Honda 125 but you don't get much machine time before you're on the road among traffic - I struggled with that.

It's probably a good way to pass the tests but I don't think it's the best way to learn.

LastMantra

Foster said:

Moe_Zambeek said:

Well that sucks, @Foster what a horrible experience to have to go through. Completely inappropriate. I know it may be too late now but riding is amazing, please don’t give up because of one arsehole instructor. Also, if the instructor is not the owner I’d be on them for some form of refund. Not good enough to treat customers like that.

The instructor is the owner, it's a one man show.

I'm happy to not get on a bike again, i've got the van which is a makeshift camper. It is infinitely better than a bike as it's got a kettle in it.

All I need now is to rig up a makeshift auto-drive thing so i can make a brew on the motorway. I think some pool noodles around the bumpers and a brick on the accelerator should do the trick

I'm thinking of that scene from anchorman 

You could always get a wee trail bike to strap on the back of your camper. 

My dad got me into trials (IA) when I was young. Safer than racing around the streets, probably makes you a more confident rider too. 

TheBigDipper

@Foster +1 for reporting him to the DVSA. They won't be able to do too much, I suspect, because the DVSA didn’t (when I ran an ATB, anyway) really pay much attention to how the school actually operated. But it won't hurt. The scope of the DVSA was primarily a) certifying the individual instructors for their ability to run a competent CBT course or DAS course and b) certifying the business itself as having an appropriate area for off-road training and the facilities to run off-road training safely.

The way the owner chose to run their business, interface with their customers (apart from actually when running a training session, which was assessed under "instructor assessment") and generally operate wasn't on their radar. Yes, the local assessors would know which schools were good, which were bad and might assess accordingly (be more thorough with a school that had a bad rep, or lots of test fails), but that's all. The marketplace would decide which schools survived and which failed. When you consider most customers don't take repeat courses, (most customers are new, pass and don't come back), then it's easy for a bad school to stay in business for far too long. Especially if they're the only school in town. 

TheBigDipper

Haych said:

Sorry to learn about your experience @Foster, that kind of behaviour from an instructor in unacceptable, I'd be in touch with the DVSA or whoever certifies the instructors and complaining like a drain.  I'd also be writing reviews on Google, Facebook, TripAdvisor, whatever, and trying to steer people away from him.

My instructor was a one man show but was entirely the opposite.  I didn't like him much as a person but as a motorcycle instructor he was very good.

I found the direct access course a struggle.  It's a lot to take in in a very short space of time.  I didn't get a bike after doing my CBT, so I went straight from CBT to riding a Suzuki SV650 - the machine was better in every way to ride than the little Honda 125 but you don't get much machine time before you're on the road among traffic - I struggled with that.

It's probably a good way to pass the tests but I don't think it's the best way to learn.

^^^ In a nutshell. Most schools train people to pass the test rather than ride properly. And driving instructors are the same.

It's what the customers want - a driving licence. They don't really want the education and don't want to pay for the professional time that it would require to get them there.

Most CBTs in London, where there is competition, are chosen based on price. For most people it's a distress purchase. I decided to take a different approach and marketed my business on the basis of quality - but I was the most expensive school in the whole city as far as I was aware. But I had nice customers and they got to ride nice bikes because they paid a reasonable fee for it. 

Emp_Fab

After many years out of the saddle, I'm getting an itch to get another bike.  Not sure what...  Maybe a 500 enduro or a big sports tourer.

Haych

I await the which bike thread

ALR

A little side-note to @Foster experience. I first took my motorcycle test in 2010 - I had a great time doing an intensive course, passed my Mod 1 with no minors, but then put in for my mod 2. I overheard my riding instructors talking about what a total dragon the examiner was, and how she was putting people off riding by failing them for nothing.

I failed my first test for blocking an entrance to let some emergency vehicles pass - harsh I thought, but technically yes I had done something wrong.

Second go, we were going around a roundabout and she got cut up by another rider and had to go around again (I wasn't involved at all). I was failed because on the approach to the roundabout - which was a dual carriageway with both lanes queuing - I hadn't moved into the lane which had cleared up and stayed in the same lane. That was my only fault on the test, major or minor. My riding instructors simply refused to believe that's what had happened and seemed convinced I'd missed an observation. I told them that wasn't the reason I was given. Brassed off with the whole situation I decided that I'd done the best I could and that I'd never be able to get past this examiner - so I gave up.

Until last year.

We moved in 2015 and our new next door neighbour is well into his bikes. I'd taken an interest and loved going around to see what he'd bought next - but despite his cajoling I told him I'd not be trying again to do it. When he needed someone to go to MCN live with him in late 2021 I thought I'd just go for the craic, but after seeing some of the wonderful machinery I thought I should given it another go.

My wife took a bit of convincing but eventually got on board. I went back to my old instructors, took 1 three hour lesson a week, passed my theory, Mod 1 (no faults) and Mod 2 (2 minors). I didn't feel nervous - I knew I could do it because I'd done it all before!

Shortly after I got a Ducati Monster and I absolutely love it. I can't tell you how much of a positive move doing this has been for me. Living on the edge of the Peak District I've got loads of great places to ride to and roads to do them on, and I've met some great people too. My neighbour and I just went out for a 120 mile ride today, it's fantastic. And not just the riding too; I take a lot of pride in my machine and enjoy the cleaning and tinkering almost as much as the riding.

Don't give up on it just because of your arsehole instructor, and also you're never too old to do it - I eventually passed when I was 42!

Dominic

^' enjoy the cleaning and  tinkering almost as much as the riding '
Yay, ....a Biker is born !

Kittyfrisk

Emp_Fab said:

After many years out of the saddle, I'm getting an itch to get another bike.  Not sure what...  Maybe a 500 enduro or a big sports tourer.

Royal Enfield Himalayan. Good on rough roads & close to a Yeti...

Emp_Fab

No sorry...   I won't have anything other than Japanese.

Haych

A guy I know bought a new Honda NC750SA about 18 months ago. 

They weren’t popular, didn’t sell well at all so we’re discontinued fairly quickly. He got hit at an insane price brand new. He loves it. 

It’s not powerful by todays standards but can keep up with traffic on the motorway and he gets about 85mpg from it!

Used prices aren’t high. You could do worse. 

Dominic

Emp_Fab said:

No sorry...   I won't have anything other than Japanese.

......Yeah,'cos those Ducatis, KTMs,Aprillias etc are all rubbish

AK99

Emp_Fab said:

No sorry...   I won't have anything other than Japanese.

I've a brother who won't buy anything other than Hondas. 
 
Reminds me a bit of the quote from a chap whose name I can't remember to the Alan Rickman / Stephen Spurrier wine snob character in Bottle Shock:

"You're a wine snob, which both defines .. and, sadly,  limits you in so many ways.."

(probably misquoted..but you get the gist )