Need to to tighten up some drum parts...no motivation :(

PolarityMan

So we've been recording some drums for the new EP. I think we got pretty solid takes of everything except for this tricky 7/8 double bass section and a tom groove. 

So I need to try and see if I can edit together a good enough take from the performances before we decide if we do another round of drum tracking.

Problem being I really cant be arsed....I hate drum editing  

octatonic

Fix it at the performance level.

PolarityMan

would love to but ran out of studio time and our drummer has really really bad red light syndrome at times. Another session means re-setting up the mics so porbably need to redo the whole 8 minute long fucking song just because he didnt put the fucking practice in that he was asked to.

If it doesnt work Ill just fucking replace it with BFD

guitarfishbay

I honestly know where you're coming from but unless there's will, budget, and time then you're just going to have to bite the bullet and fix it.

Performance is king... What I'd suggest next time is sitting in on a practice session, and spot issues ahead of time. A lot of people have busy lives and can't practice much but a problem I keep running in to is inefficient practising/lack of awareness that a certain part really needs work. It is easy to miss things when the whole band is playing, but if you just listen to a player in isolation you can spot the strengths and weaknesses more easily.

thomasross20

I've been doing drums from scratch for about 5 months (until 1-2am some nights) for FOUR songs. It's been a nightmare and I'm still not completely done. 

It's just a matter of grinding through it.

PolarityMan

guitarfishbay said:

I honestly know where you're coming from but unless there's will, budget, and time then you're just going to have to bite the bullet and fix it.

Performance is king... What I'd suggest next time is sitting in on a practice session, and spot issues ahead of time. A lot of people have busy lives and can't practice much but a problem I keep running in to is inefficient practising/lack of awareness that a certain part really needs work. It is easy to miss things when the whole band is playing, but if you just listen to a player in isolation you can spot the strengths and weaknesses more easily.

The sad thing is we did. Last hour of the last 5 or so practices have been preproduction, recording along to the click with overheads and it showed up areas that needed work but instead of practicing them our drummer would rather argue about it and then blow recording time instead.

randomhandclaps

How separate are they and how bad is the problem?  It's one of the issues with planning drum micing that I hate most. 

By and large the older I get (which I think is typical of experience) then the set up becomes simpler and the tendencies to want to mic every detail drops off, due to confidence I suppose.  However if you need to fix problems it becomes much, much harder. 

After the last full band line-up me and Mrs RHC had and the cost of re-tracking some drums which I still hated due to sub-standard 'mate' drummer I have started to think that bands with small budgets, non-rich parents and no live recording space should view real drum kits as a bit of a luxury and a gamble.  Much like a lot of guitarists realise that Axe FXs and Kempers etc. are more economical, that a good electronic kit along with an ocean of great samples should be given serious consideration.  Imagine how much simpler your life would be right note if you could just nudge some midi around?

Double kicks are particularly an arse because they've become so standard but the difference between pulling it off acceptably live and when the red light is on is massive. 

PolarityMan

thomasross20;885932" said:

I've been doing drums from scratch for about 5 months (until 1-2am some nights) for FOUR songs. It's been a nightmare and I'm still not completely done. It's just a matter of grinding through it.

I dont know why but I find drum programming pretty fun but timing up drum audio extremely tedious. It's definitely more time consuming. I could program these parts in next to no time.

octatonic

PolarityMan said:

thomasross20;885932" said:

I've been doing drums from scratch for about 5 months (until 1-2am some nights) for FOUR songs. It's been a nightmare and I'm still not completely done. It's just a matter of grinding through it.

I dont know why but I find drum programming pretty fun but timing up drum audio extremely tedious. It's definitely more time consuming. I could program these parts in next to no time.

What program are you using to edit?

Beat Detective in Protools is the way to go- it is literally the only reason I still use PT these days.

PolarityMan

just raw reaper keyboard shortcuts. I had an m-audio card once specifically to try pro tools but i never really got on with it.

randomhandclaps

The only issue I find with beat detective is that in a solid part where the drummer's moves are more synchronised it's great and even in straighter fills.  However I find that in both complex fills and time changes a lot of drummers limbs start to work independently and lag.  Depending on how busy and how loud the rest of mix is it can be really tricky to get it to sound natural and unclipped. 

What beat detective can also come in really handy for (or just careful trimming in any program instead) is if you have any fairly isolated beats from sparser sections you can use to replace any you cut or EQ out. 

Do you have Autotune or Melodyne because they can be used utilized as a makeshift Beat Detective?

guitarfishbay

PolarityMan;885957" said:

guitarfishbay said:

I honestly know where you're coming from but unless there's will, budget, and time then you're just going to have to bite the bullet and fix it.



Performance is king... What I'd suggest next time is sitting in on a practice session, and spot issues ahead of time. A lot of people have busy lives and can't practice much but a problem I keep running in to is inefficient practising/lack of awareness that a certain part really needs work. It is easy to miss things when the whole band is playing, but if you just listen to a player in isolation you can spot the strengths and weaknesses more easily.





The sad thing is we did. Last hour of the last 5 or so practices have been preproduction, recording along to the click with overheads and it showed up areas that needed work but instead of practicing them our drummer would rather argue about it and then blow recording time instead.

Frustrating for sure.

With recording excuses are meaningless, you either can play it or you can't. Yes things can be fixed to an extent but it can be soul destroying and not why I write music.

It is tough trying to performance manage your mates in a situation where anyone can walk if they're not finding it fun.

PolarityMan

Yeah tbh I think it's partly a curse of the DIY approach. I actually think he would respond much better to someone outside the band.

randomhandclaps

PolarityMan said:

I actually think he would respond much better to someone outside the band.

Or maybe if the rest of you were naked.

octatonic

PolarityMan said:

Yeah tbh I think it's partly a curse of the DIY approach. I actually think he would respond much better to someone outside the band.

This is why producers exist.

PolarityMan

randomhandclaps said:

PolarityMan said:

I actually think he would respond much better to someone outside the band.

Or maybe if the rest of you were naked.

I did wonder about some of those production tutorials on you tube

thomasross20

PolarityMan said:

thomasross20;885932" said:

I've been doing drums from scratch for about 5 months (until 1-2am some nights) for FOUR songs. It's been a nightmare and I'm still not completely done. It's just a matter of grinding through it.

I dont know why but I find drum programming pretty fun but timing up drum audio extremely tedious. It's definitely more time consuming. I could program these parts in next to no time.

I'm trying to map tempo and drums to a non-click guitar track (more than one, actually) - it is taking forever......!! 

I listen to drums + guitar. 

Drums + bass. 

Whole tracks. 

I listen to it while doing something else to see if my ear catches something that's off. 

I just spent ~2 hours since my last message tweaking 4 bars which I previously thought were fine. 

Infinite process

Also depends on your mood at the time. 

I recommend not doing tempo mapping / drums at night when you're tired as next day it'll sound too slow lol

Danny1969

Much as I love Reaper I find Protools much much better for real drum editing across multiple tracks. Yes the Midi sucks, everything else might suck but it's awesome for fixing drums. If you get your markers right BD is a superb tool. 

Your in Southampton mate aren't you ? If you really can't be arsed give Jack and Shag a call at Envy studios. Those guys are amazing at editing metal drums and lightening fast

PolarityMan

Nah Ill sort it, just needed an "I told you so" rant

PolarityMan

thomasross20 said:

PolarityMan said:

thomasross20;885932" said:

I've been doing drums from scratch for about 5 months (until 1-2am some nights) for FOUR songs. It's been a nightmare and I'm still not completely done. It's just a matter of grinding through it.

I dont know why but I find drum programming pretty fun but timing up drum audio extremely tedious. It's definitely more time consuming. I could program these parts in next to no time.

I'm trying to map tempo and drums to a non-click guitar track (more than one, actually) - it is taking forever......!! 

I listen to drums + guitar. 

Drums + bass. 

Whole tracks. 

I listen to it while doing something else to see if my ear catches something that's off. 

I just spent ~2 hours since my last message tweaking 4 bars which I previously thought were fine. 

Infinite process

Also depends on your mood at the time. 

I recommend not doing tempo mapping / drums at night when you're tired as next day it'll sound too slow lol

Argh god why on earth would you not use a click? 

thomasross20

Killer guitar tracks from years ago - never thought I'd use them in anything. I added bass and thought "oh yes" - do not want to re-record as will never get the same tone & feel on those parts. So. ~3-4 hours per 5-10 second section of song. That's just for timing. Tempo line can only do so much! Then add in volume variances, actually making up the beat, minute tweaks here and there, continual listening - takes absolutely F.O.R.E.V.E.R. 

Never again, I tell you.... 

The one good thing is that it does sound pretty realistic!