Celestion's new speakers - A-Type and V-Type.

ecc83

Cirrus said:

The problem with speaker shootouts like this is that the first sound you hear normalises your expectations, then the subsequent sounds are influenced by the sounds that came before them. So the order you hear them in might influence your preferences.

Also, generally in an effort to be scientific the guitar part, settings and mic positions are unaltered. This is unrealistic because in practice you'll dial in the amp through the speakers you're using, chose a mic position that works best with those speakers, and the sound you hear will influence how and what you play.

This is why the most useful test of how much I like a speaker is also the most subjective... and this is true for anything music related; Get the gear, use it for a few months, then decide if in general it's making your life better or worse. Speaker shootouts are for me just an interesting little game - I don't take away much from them other than that yes, the speakers sound different.

I agree, pointless. A reasonably MO would be a double blind A/B test conducted over period of time and with a selection of auditors of varying ages and backgrounds. Then, the only real purpose of such a test would be to determine if product A was significantly better than product B and thus worth extra tooling up costs to mass produce it. "We" used to do "quick and dirty" A;B test just to check a component change did not radically change an existing product's sound but they were hardly scientific!

At the very least, shootouts should use a re-amped guitar track!

Dave.

ICBM

It's also debatable how much sensitivity should be compensated for - obviously in terms of the actual tone you should, but in practice the sensitivity does have some bearing on the perceived 'tone'... in both directions, depending on how you set the amp. A louder speaker will sound 'better' than a quieter one at the same amp settings, but equally you may turn the amp up a bit further with a quieter speaker to match the volume and so the amp may then sound better (or at least different) since they are rarely very linear even over quite small volume changes.

That doesn't totally excuse the Rocket 50 from sounding so poor though .

guitarfishbay

Getting in to the science of A/B testing is a rabbit hole.

I think tests like these give you a good idea of how a piece of equipment might perform in a given scenario, in this case higher gain sounds.  Ultimately the final decision about whether or not you like something is personal and subjective, so the journey involves research, but then trial and error when you use it yourself.

phase3

The A type doesn't sound anything like either of those tests.  It isn't a bright speaker by any means but has good mids, lower mids and bass.  so it's a 'problem solver'.  If you've got a very bright or harsh amp...A type will help. I use them in several cabs partnered with G12H30 anniversary's and they work really well together. The V type is ok but for me they are fairly close to a V30 ...but not quite as good on driven sounds ..maybe slightly better on clean.  They are standard in the Mike Landau Fender Deville ...which is a very 'clean machine".

Pete Thorns demo of the A type is pretty close to what it really sounds like.

ToneControl

The video is well made but

if those speakers are running from the same amp output (I assume they are), then this video does not tell me enough:

I know from my own experiments that the results from speaker X change - sometimes massively - as soon as speaker Y is added to the load on the amp, because speakers typically absorb different frequencies from the current supplied from the amp. 

These 2 drivers may load the amp similarly enough to avoid this, but it would need a test to find out

so - 2 amps in parallel with separate 2x12 cabs, each containing 2 identical drivers would help me more

ICBM

phase3 said:

The A type doesn't sound anything like either of those tests.  It isn't a bright speaker by any means but has good mids, lower mids and bass.  so it's a 'problem solver'.  If you've got a very bright or harsh amp...A type will help. I use them in several cabs partnered with G12H30 anniversary's and they work really well together. The V type is ok but for me they are fairly close to a V30 ...but not quite as good on driven sounds ..maybe slightly better on clean.  They are standard in the Mike Landau Fender Deville ...which is a very 'clean machine".

Pete Thorns demo of the A type is pretty close to what it really sounds like.

It still sounds horribly muddy there, like there's literally a blanket over the cab. No top-end at all.

I don't like ice-pick either, but I like to hear *some* sparkle and clarity, and there is absolutely none there.

phase3

Yep, for sure, no one should ever buy a speaker based on you tube demos...they tell you nothing about real world performance especially with your own kit.

As i said, the A type doesn't have a sparkling top end but it's not muddy. There's a lot of detail and good definition in the mids and very solid bass. Definitely no ice pick in upper mids. So it will fix a lot of those ice pick issues with cheapo fender badged eminence units in fenders hot rod series but you'd need to crank up the treble or hit the bright switch to restore some top end. Or of course in a 2x12 partner it with something sparkly.

I don't think it's a low volume speaker either but at gig volume it opens up and adds a surprising amount of girth.  

It's all very personal though...of course..