Struggling to find a keys player!

PC_Dave

I'm not sure if anyone has the same experience with finding keys players, but they are either far too precious about what style they play, or "won't do strings. Ever", or "Only if I get paid ten thousand pounds per gig, and I won't travel more than 4 square inches from my home studio"

All i'm after is a dedicated, talented, easy to get on with keys player for a soul/funk function band.

Shouldn't be that hard, eh?

ESBlonde

Good luck, anyone worth having is probably in two or more bands already and can regularly earn good money. Unless you have something good to offer (regular well paid work, a horn section or a celeb in the line up) they are probably already sorted.
They can be found but as you've discovered it's an uphill graft.

Stick at it and good luck.

PC_Dave

ESBlonde said:

Good luck, anyone worth having is probably in two or more bands already and can regularly earn good money. Unless you have something good to offer (regular well paid work, a horn section or a celeb in the line up) they are probably already sorted.
They can be found but as you've discovered it's an uphill graft.

Stick at it and good luck.

Wise words. It just annoys me when they reply to an advert, string you along and then drop out when you've arranged an audition!

Danny1969

I have a keys player in 2 of my bands but when I need keys in the other bands I record the parts into a Roland SPD pad and trigger it with my feet. 

Say we've doing Valerie (Whinehouse version) I'll play the first horns in thirds into pad 1, then the 2nd horns bit in thirds into pad 2 then the last horn bit for the verse into pad 3 ..... then for the chorus I've got the first chord on an organ on pad 4 and the 2nd chord on pad 5. I always set Pad 6 to be an overall mute so if I fuckup then I can kill it

Strings is even easier as the changes are less. If I'm solo'ing in at the end of Purple rain I just change string chords by hitting the pads with my feet at the same time. Pricetag, just 4 chords triggered with feet, Up to get Lucky the same, then I'll use ambient sounds for stuff like The 1975's Girls or Walk The moons Shut up and dance.

These things were designed for drummers but after one practice and realizing most drummers have no ideal of keys and changes I just started doing it myself with my feet and it works a lot better. 

They tend to have 9 pads but I ignore the smallest 3 and use the 6 large ones as they are easy to step on

 

It's the keys player that doesn't charge you any money and never moans about the set list ........ oh and won't immerse every song in unnecessary Hammond organ parts  

Phil_aka_Pip

Danny1969 said:

oh and won't immerse every song in unnecessary Hammond organ parts  

is there such a thing? I lurve the Hammond sound, so much so that I'd go out of my way to find a use for it

PC_Dave

Danny1969 said:

I have a keys player in 2 of my bands but when I need keys in the other bands I record the parts into a Roland SPD pad and trigger it with my feet. 

Say we've doing Valerie (Whinehouse version) I'll play the first horns in thirds into pad 1, then the 2nd horns bit in thirds into pad 2 then the last horn bit for the verse into pad 3 ..... then for the chorus I've got the first chord on an organ on pad 4 and the 2nd chord on pad 5. I always set Pad 6 to be an overall mute so if I fuckup then I can kill it

Strings is even easier as the changes are less. If I'm solo'ing in at the end of Purple rain I just change string chords by hitting the pads with my feet at the same time. Pricetag, just 4 chords triggered with feet, Up to get Lucky the same, then I'll use ambient sounds for stuff like The 1975's Girls or Walk The moons Shut up and dance.

These things were designed for drummers but after one practice and realizing most drummers have no ideal of keys and changes I just started doing it myself with my feet and it works a lot better. 

They tend to have 9 pads but I ignore the smallest 3 and use the 6 large ones as they are easy to step on

 

It's the keys player that doesn't charge you any money and never moans about the set list ........ oh and won't immerse every song in unnecessary Hammond organ parts  

That is genius!

Problem is I can barely play guitar, and that plus attempting backing vocals and breathing, i'd probably implode
)

EricTheWeary

Our keyboardist is definitely the musical talent in our band, largely only there through being bezzy mates with the singer (who is also her boss - very complex relationship). She gigs a lot more than the rest of us, is polite, learns her stuff and can get paying dep jobs at the drop of a hat.

They do seem to divide into the properly trained and highly competent versus one fingered no hopers. I guess the nature of guitar and bass allows more people to straddle that kind of gap. Whilst I can see finding a good one is hard I'd suggest that guitarists tend to be the most precious about the style they play and limit themselves.

PC_Dave

EricTheWeary said:

Our keyboardist is definitely the musical talent in our band, largely only there through being bezzy mates with the singer (who is also her boss - very complex relationship). She gigs a lot more than the rest of us, is polite, learns her stuff and can get paying dep jobs at the drop of a hat.

They do seem to divide into the properly trained and highly competent versus one fingered no hopers. I guess the nature of guitar and bass allows more people to straddle that kind of gap. Whilst I can see finding a good one is hard I'd suggest that guitarists tend to be the most precious about the style they play and limit themselves.

Yeah, it does appear that way - either pro or REALLY amateur. It's just downright pigging annoying as the band I joined recently that got me out of the non-playing hole I was in has completely stalled without it. It's either a) Change the entire set that the band knows to less keys oriented tunes and have more of delay until gigging starts or b) wait even longer for a keys player to come along who will either work out or not.

Damned frustrating!

EricTheWeary

PC_Dave;926371" said:

EricTheWeary said:

Our keyboardist is definitely the musical talent in our band, largely only there through being bezzy mates with the singer (who is also her boss - very complex relationship). She gigs a lot more than the rest of us, is polite, learns her stuff and can get paying dep jobs at the drop of a hat.



They do seem to divide into the properly trained and highly competent versus one fingered no hopers. I guess the nature of guitar and bass allows more people to straddle that kind of gap. Whilst I can see finding a good one is hard I'd suggest that guitarists tend to be the most precious about the style they play and limit themselves.





Yeah, it does appear that way - either pro or REALLY amateur. It's just downright pigging annoying as the band I joined recently that got me out of the non-playing hole I was in has completely stalled without it. It's either a) Change the entire set that the band knows to less keys oriented tunes and have more of delay until gigging starts or b) wait even longer for a keys player to come along who will either work out or not.



Damned frustrating!

I think if you have paid gigs waiting you will turn somebody up who can learn the set and get the cash. Finding someone who is good for a band starting from scratch is much harder, although that applies to pretty much every instrument.
Our keyboard player won't do unpaid gigs or anything very low paid even (although she does have to cover babysitting costs for a start) so although she is in the band we won't do gigs just for the experience /exposure that the rest of us would be up for.

PC_Dave

Funny thing is, we will have paid gigs through an agency my mate has - just need a keys player to finish the line up!

Catch 22

ESBlonde

We are lucky in that when we lost out other keys man (very talented but busy with all sorts) we managed to find another gadget fiend that loves the genre. Then we got girl singer two replaced and it turns out she is a music teacher and plays a mean piano and trumpet too! Although she has yet to do either on stage with us yet, her friend who is a sax player got up at the last gig to jam a few numbers and was really in the groove. It's rare to have a horn player that good without the dots in my experience.
Other times one wants to despair over band mates, the bubble always bursts sooner or later.

LoFi

PC_Dave said:Yeah, it does appear that way - either pro or REALLY amateur. It's just downright pigging annoying as the band I joined recently that got me out of the non-playing hole I was in has completely stalled without it. It's either a) Change the entire set that the band knows to less keys oriented tunes and have more of delay until gigging starts or b) wait even longer for a keys player to come along who will either work out or not.

Damned frustrating!

I don't play in bands any more (work gets in the way), but I was rather more or the "Pro" side (played piano since 5, Grade 8 etc...)

Through my 20's, I played in two vaguely serious covers bands (functions, clubs, etc). I really enjoyed both, but there were downsides, and they were a big factor in me leaving both:

- In a Ska/Two-Tone covers band, I was playing with a very enthusiastic, but frankly not talented/knowledgeable bunch of guys. This meant I was having to write/transcribe parts for the brass section, and transpose them, since they couldn't transpose from concert to their instruments' keys (as well as correct them when they were getting stuff wrong).

- In a Soul/Blues band, the brass section (and actually, the band as a whole) were much better. The issue here was when we were doing certain functions (ones typically including dinner), I was being asked to play jazz over dinner. When I asked if would be getting a bigger share of the pay (since I was doing 90 minutes more than everyone else, as well as having to learn more repertoire), I was told I was being greedy, and it was a partnership.

TL;DR? As "The Muso", I was basically doing more work than everyone else, for the same money.

(On the miniscule change that any of the people involved have read this, I should point out I did enjoy both bands!)

PC_Dave

@LoFi - I can see how bloody irritating that would be. I'm a believer in getting paid for what you put in.

Don't suppose you're based in surrey are you

Panama_Jack666

Contact some piano/keys teachers that can recommend a student or two!

PC_Dave

Panama_Jack666;926834" said:

Contact some piano/keys teachers that can recommend a student or two!

Good point! Will look into that!

Panama_Jack666

PC_Dave;926839" said:

[quote="Panama_Jack666;926834"]Contact some piano/keys teachers that can recommend a student or two!

Good point! Will look into that![/quote]

Honestly, it's the quickest way of finding a decent player. I've done it before. Teachers should only recommend someone who is capable as well and usually the students will be looking for a band!

Bellycaster

Having the same problem @PC_Dave

Good ones are as rare as Rocking Horse Shit, I'll keep this thread noted. Good luck in your quest.

PC_Dave

Bellycaster;927230" said:

Having the same problem @PC_Dave

Good ones are as rare as Rocking Horse Shit, I'll keep this thread noted. Good luck in your quest.

Thank you Squire - you too!!

thecolourbox

Just a thought from somebody who plays keys! Hopefully it comes across as helpful not negatively. But you say keys players annoy you because they are picky about what style they play, but want them for a very specific style of soul/funk, which isn't a hugely exciting style to play as a keys player. Might it be better to advertise for them to bring some of their style to funk/soul so they see themselves as more than just somebody to fill in a few chords that others can't reach?

The other thing, is that generally piano players learn it as a solo instrument and are therefore (often quite subconsciously) content to play by themselves, unlike guitarists where I think the usual expectation is to try and play along with others. Keys players are different beasts and probably less likely to be happy just to be gigging as much as your average guitar player might be. Just a hunch but thought it might help in your approach of attracting a good keys player

PC_Dave

Totally understand - a lot of the tunes aren't exciting to play as a guitarist in the set

But my issue is they won't even give it a chance!!

EricTheWeary

thecolourbox;927434" said:

Just a thought from somebody who plays keys! Hopefully it comes across as helpful not negatively. But you say keys players annoy you because they are picky about what style they play, but want them for a very specific style of soul/funk, which isn't a hugely exciting style to play as a keys player. Might it be better to advertise for them to bring some of their style to funk/soul so they see themselves as more than just somebody to fill in a few chords that others can't reach?

The other thing, is that generally piano players learn it as a solo instrument and are therefore (often quite subconsciously) content to play by themselves, unlike guitarists where I think the usual expectation is to try and play along with others. Keys players are different beasts and probably less likely to be happy just to be gigging as much as your average guitar player might be. Just a hunch but thought it might help in your approach of attracting a good keys player

Although this does remind me of my pet peeve with keyboard players - playing like they were at home and having no idea how to fit into a band. My second peeve being them not owning any form of amplification.