These old guys must have known a thing or two

Phil_aka_Pip

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-35431974

ESchap

Schooled by Aliens, obviously.

xSkarloey

Clever and innovative people I think, as straightforward as that.

digitalscream

Yep. I studied ancient Babylonian mathematical methods at uni, and what they could do would boggle the mind of most people.

They used base-60, for a start, which makes an awful lot of things much simpler and more accurate - like calculating pi (which they did), primes, squares and cubes. They'd done most of the heavy-lifting in maths that we attribute to the Romans and Greeks about 3000 years before they even existed.

Then again...a lot of people think that the population now knows more than people did until recently. The thing is...even if you study modern maths up to A-level, you've actually got about as far as the basics that were known in the 12th or 13th century.

CabbageCat

digitalscream said:

Then again...a lot of people think that the population now knows more than people did until recently. The thing is...even if you study modern maths up to A-level, you've actually got about as far as the basics that were known in the 12th or 13th century.

...the basics that the mathematicians knew. Maths hasn't really changed that much since then. The only new things are pretty advanced so wouldn't be studied at A-Level.

digitalscream

CabbageCat said:

digitalscream said:

Then again...a lot of people think that the population now knows more than people did until recently. The thing is...even if you study modern maths up to A-level, you've actually got about as far as the basics that were known in the 12th or 13th century.

...the basics that the mathematicians knew. Maths hasn't really changed that much since then. The only new things are pretty advanced so wouldn't be studied at A-Level.

Yep...what I mean is, people tend to think that proper advances have only been made recently, but the reality is that huge leaps in knowledge (not the general population's knowledge) were made an astonishingly long time ago. It definitely makes you wonder what's been lost, and where we'd be if it wasn't.

Chalky

There is no convincing evidence that the people in ancient Greece were any less intelligent than people today. That is, they had the ability to manipulate knowledge and data to arrive at outcomes that were more than the sum of the parts. The difference is that today's knowledhe is different - the input is different but the computer is the same.

ICBM

The only big mathematical thing that you might learn at school today that's more advanced than the Babylonians knew is Calculus, which was developed in the 17th Century by Newton and Liebniz.

People five thousand years ago were exactly as intelligent as they are today - there simply hasn't been enough time for a long-generation species like us to evolve significantly in that time.

scrumhalf

ICBM said:

The only big mathematical thing that you might learn at school today that's more advanced than the Babylonians knew is Calculus, which was developed in the 17th Century by Newton and Liebniz.

And by an amazing co-incidence, both had biscuits named after them. Can we not honour today's maths wizzes in the same way?

strtdv

Using a base 60 makes much more sense than a decimal system that we use, far more numbers divide neatly into it.

One of the most incredible things an ancient civilisation achieved IMO is the Antikythera mechanism, which was an analogue computer the complexity of which was not equalled in modern civilisations for another 1500 years.

randomhandclaps

Historical achievements never really impress me as I truly believe human beings are capable of the most amazing accomplishments without the distraction of the internet constantly shoving breasts at you.  Olden days people had it easy.

Phil_aka_Pip

randomhandclaps said:

Historical achievements never really impress me as I truly believe human beings are capable of the most amazing accomplishments without the distraction of the internet constantly shoving breasts at you.  Olden days people had it easy.

You don't like having breasts shoved in front of you?

Sporky

strtdv said:

Using a base 60 makes much more sense than a decimal system that we use

It does require a lot of fingers though.

Chalky

Strangely, the ONLY things we really know about the Babylonians is they liked to make and keep extensive records, the equivalent of today's computer files, logs and audit trails. We know almost bugger all about their social, culture and home life. Clearly they were a race of accountants led by actuaries.

Phil_aka_Pip

Sporky said:

strtdv said:

Using a base 60 makes much more sense than a decimal system that we use

It does require a lot of fingers though.

You can count from 0-63 on 6 fingers

littlegreenman

Phil_aka_Pip said:

Sporky said:

strtdv said:

Using a base 60 makes much more sense than a decimal system that we use

It does require a lot of fingers though.

You can count from 0-63 on 6 fingers

I'm mathematically retarded, care to explain that to me please?

xSkarloey

strtdv;953170" said:

Using a base 60 makes much more sense than a decimal system that we use, far more numbers divide neatly into it.

One of the most incredible things an ancient civilisation achieved IMO is the Antikythera mechanism, which was an analogue computer the complexity of which was not equalled in modern civilisations for another 1500 years.

Yes, that Greek computing device is astounding.

One of the more outstanding BBC docs in recent years was about that.

I am very surprised no other examples have been found. Maybe it wasn't in widespread use.

So many things we think of as 'modern' were either developed in ancient days or had close parallels in the ancient world but were forgotten/ lost/ fell out of use. A kind of steam power for instance was in use in Alexandria in the pre Christian era, mainly used to create moving statues and other mechanical curios.

I agree with all of you saying our distant forefathers were as sophisticated and intelligent as us. Consider the sheer nous, cunning and ingenuity a hunter-gatherer would have had to display just to survive

Sporky

Phil_aka_Pip said:

Sporky said:

It does require a lot of fingers though.

You can count from 0-63 on 6 fingers

Not in base60 you can't. But you can do it on four fingers in tertiary, which isn't (physically) too hard.

LGM - if you use each finger as a binary digit you can get to 1023 with ten fingers. Over 59,000 in tertiary (base 3). It's a nerd thing.

strtdv

Sporky;953204" said:

strtdv said:

Using a base 60 makes much more sense than a decimal system that we use





It does require a lot of fingers though.

You can count to 1023 on your fingers if you use a binary system

Edit; doh, beaten to it

WezV

Skarloey;953276" said:

[quote="strtdv;953170"]Using a r mechanical curios.

I agree with all of you saying our distant forefathers were as sophisticated and intelligent as us. Consider the sheer nous, cunning and ingenuity a hunter-gatherer would have had to display just to survive

I have very little doubt about this. I would even argue we have lost a lot of practical intelligence the hunter gatherer needed

But really its just down to access to knowledge. A hunter gatherer only learned from a few other specialists. These days we have access to infinite knowledge at ease. You can spend your life just learning what others did before, and you are never really starting a new scenario without some prior learning's you could use to help.

Few people create new knowledge and fewer still are as specialised as the hunter gatherer.

It was easy for people like Newton, he just had to name the obvious.

HAL9000

Skarloey;953276" said:

Consider the sheer nous, cunning and ingenuity a hunter-gatherer would have had to display just to survive

This is one of those things that has always amazed me. Compared with lots of other creatures, humans can't move particularly fast, and aren't especially strong. Add to that they are also pretty useless at hunting, or even defending themselves for the first several years of their lives. I guess its only our wits that make hunting, as opposed to gathering, possible. After all, without the tools to do the job I'd imagine most of us would struggle to catch even something small such as a fish or a rabbit, let alone anything that can actually put up a fight.