What prevents us from performing well in public?

Rocker

This post is about playing music in public, but the background information might not appear to be relevant to music and playing, so please bear with me.

 

Before I got ill recently, I was reading the book Mind over Golf by Alan Fine.  Fine, who is a tennis coach, suggests (and this is a simplification of his theories as I understand them) that we have two parts to our brain – the conscious mind and the sub conscious mind.  He suggests that when we learn a skill, it is stored in our sub conscious mind and when called upon, we can perform the task precisely and without error. 

 

An example is walking.  We don’t think about the actions needed to walk, all we do is decide to move somewhere and it happens.  Our sub conscious mind takes care of the technical details.  Now put a 6” wide plank on the ground, we have no trouble walking along it.  Place that plank between the piers of your gate, secure it and suddenly walking on the plank becomes much more difficult.  It is the same plank we walked on when it was on the ground.  Alan Fine argues that our conscious mind, aware that we might fall to the ground tries, and often succeeds, to override the sub conscious minds knowledge on how to walk.  Thus making what is or should be a simple task very difficult to perform well.

 

Another example Fine gives, he is teaching a young girl how to keep a tennis rally going.  After around six weeks, she can manage six consecutive strokes.  But no more than six.  So he suggested that the girl say the word “bounce” aloud when the ball bounces in front of her and the word “hit” when she hits the ball back.  The results were outstanding.  She hit fifty three consecutive shots in her first rally when using the bounce/hit suggestion.  By way of explanation, Fine suggests that the girl knew how to hit the ball and this was ingrained in her sub conscious mind.  Saying the words “bounce” and “hit” aloud occupied her conscious mind thus preventing it from interfering  with her sub conscious knowledge on how to hit the ball back.

 

Can this thinking be applied to playing guitar, drums, bass, keys or any instrument?  As I see it when we learn something it becomes second nature.  Riding a bicycle or swimming for example.  So it must be similar when playing music.  Learn how to play something, a chord for example, and your sub conscious mind will arrange your fingers precisely in position every time.  The problem is interference.  Interference is your conscious mind trying to make sure you get it right.  Brought on by nerves, performing in public or even trying to look good.  Interference causes us to fluff chords that we know by heart, play duff notes, etc.  Simply put, reduce the interference to improve the performance!

 

This is as far as I have gone with this study and thinking.  Input from others is needed.  A question that I feel relevant is: does singing enhance or affect your playing?  Your conscious mind is concentrating on the vocals; does your sub conscious mind get on with the playing bit?  If it does, then all we need to do is to learn the music parts perfectly and distract your conscious mind while your sub conscious mind controls your fingers.

 

Any thoughts on this.......

digitalscream

That's the funny thing - I'm unable to do anything while I'm playing guitar. I can't talk, I barely move...I've always put this down to me not really being a natural guitarist because I have to think about everything I'm doing; it's worse at gigs, because I have to concentrate so hard on it that anything out-of-the-ordinary happening (like effects not triggering when they should etc) throws me completely and my playing goes to shit.

The info you've posted there would seem to agree - my issue is not having many of the skills required to play stuck in my subconscious, and so most of the work is being done by my conscious mind.

Unfortunately, after 30-odd years of playing, I don't think there's a huge amount I can do to rectify the situation. If it's not been fixed after that long, I very much doubt it will be.

RocknRollDave

I think there are two, quite contradictory things that happen with me.

Yes, I do think I "think" too much and end up messing up things I would normally play fine, as my muscle memory would have played them using my subconscious mind if my conscious mind hadn't interfered.

But also I think sometimes there are parts I NEED to concentrate on, and I let it lapse into cruise-control playing, forgetting that this part actually needs me to be in the present, actively remembering what I am doing.

siremoon

I think there might be something in this.  I've only been playing for 4 years but since I became the singer my guitar playing has improved greatly.  Having to sing and remember the words whilst playing means I pay far less attention to my playing whilst doing it than I used to.  Now logically you'd think that would make it worse but it hasn't.

bluechargeboy

The theory ties in with being good at pool once you have had enough beer to not overthink the shots, but before the alcohol affects your coordination.

 

I also believe that adrenaline has a negative effect on fine motor movements, which presumably impacts on one's ability to hit them jazzy chords (much martial arts training is designed to try and overcome this clumsiness in extreme situations).

Plectrum

A lot of the songs I perform I've done so often that the playing and singing are both automatic. That's when my mind starts wandering and I mess something up |)  Also I sometimes do a little blues set with a superb pro guitarist (when he's in town) doing lead and me doing rhythm/vocals. I sometimes find it hard to just play the rhythm on its own during the solos so I sing the verses in my head

octatonic

Gigging is like anything else- the more you do it, the better you get.

Most people don't give enough to be comfortable at it.

I struggled early on with tension in my playing and would turn into a complete mess- I was nailing stuff at home & in rehearsal that was way beyond what I could do live.

Over time most of the stress and tension went away.

Some people are just less stressed in the moment than others.

I remember seeing a show about F1 drivers and how their heart rate drops when they are racing.

I have always wondered if that is somewhat that is innate, or learned.

I suspect the former but I have no evidence to really back it up.

I've become better over the years but I still get a buzz from gigging and it does slightly impair my skill level.

The secret to it is to be WAY more skilled than you need for the gig and then it is never a problem.

Danny1969

I've been doing it so long I don't have to think about it at all now, which is just as well because I tend to drink a lot at gigs so am not normally completely 100% alert brain wise. The human brain is a wonderful thing but so is muscle memory. I've no idea if they are the same thing but sometimes even if I'm distracted the fingers instinctively go where the're meant to, as they have before over hundreds of gigs before

I think it helps if you can subdivide your timing \ response \ motor actions. As in learn to do 2 different things at once. When drumming you might be doing a straight 4 on a 4 \ 4 beat on the hat but the kicks coming in on the 1 and the 5 and is see'ing it as 8 beats per bar. Same with piano left hand playing an arp thats half the speed of what the right hands doing. Playing and singing sometimes calls for this. You gotta play the riff without thinking about it while concentrating on the vocal. Sometimes one bit of the brain has to think in a different timing. It comes with practice though, I mean a lot of practice in some cases. 

Most of the problems with playing live with us on here would probably stem from not doing it enough, nothing more than that though

Dave_Vader

Billy Bragg recently had this to say about it

"A few years ago, I began to realise that, when performing, I was often singing my songs while thinking about something completely different - usually what I was going to say to introduce the next song. The notion that I was performing on auto-pilot troubled me and I began to wonder if my familiarity with the material had become nothing more than muscle memory.

But then I had a couple of experiences onstage where I became hyper-aware of what I was doing during songs - where my fingers were supposed to be, what the next line was - which made me fumble the chords and forget lines. I realised that I needed to immerse myself in the flow of the gig, like a slalom skier launching themselves down a hill, concentrating on staying upright rather than trying to process the information about the contours of the course down which they were flying.

I didn't think anymore about it until I saw this tv programme on Thursday night. The whole thing was very interesting, but around 18 minutes in, David Eagleman starts talking about our ability to do things on auto-pilot. He identifies a 'flow state' that allows the brain to take over and do things without us consciously thinking about it. I believe that's what happens to me onstage. After two or three songs, I get into this zone, where my conscious mind is hyper-connected to the room - looking to respond to audience reactions, thinking about what to say between songs - but the songs themselves are performed in this flow state.

I probably shouldn't think about it too much, but it's comforting to know that, although I may be singing on 'auto-pilot', it's not because I'm disengaged from the material."

Whether you like Billy or not, it's interesting to  note

stratman3142

Paul Gilbert said something along the lines of "it's all very well playing things at home, but you need to pull it off when people are throwing shoes at you". Hopefully someone can find the exact quote. I think his point is that there are a lot of distractions at a gig.

Sometimes I can't hear myself well. Even worse is when I can't hear the band clearly during my solos. It's all very well saying don't play so loud, but you need to if you're not cutting through and get asked to turn up (yes I do get asked to turn up on occasions ).

Playing live is easier for me than layering tracks for recording, where everything is under the microscope. The slight timing imperfections get evened out across the band in a live situation.

Sometimes I can play better on a live gig because the energy is inspiring.

The worst experience I had in recent times was when I did an open air gig in the middle of last summer and it was very humid. My fingers were sticking together and it was like playing through treacle. After that I did some research and I now carry pure natural talcum powder and fast fret. If you do some googling you'll find whole threads on this topic - seriously . Apparently Jeff Beck uses baby powder. But I've not had the problem since.

Generally I don't get nervous or anxious at gigs.  I can get anxious on gigs when there are loads of deps and things are going wrong. Not so much that the audience would notice, but it's unsettling. Also, sometimes the groove isn't working and that makes me feel off balance. All these things affect performance.

Moe_Zambeek

Isn't the flow state (in psychological terms) achieved where you're performing an activity at the limit of your abilities, not beyond, where the brain narrows its focus and allows serious concentration on the task? The mild, ostensibly surmountable challenge presented makes us feel good.


Is ehat Billy is describing really auto pilot in that context? He can surely play the songs now...Although it's possible that the task inducing the flow state is 'performing a gig to a varying audience' in which case the playing part is a minor element, what is causing the flow state is the need to assess and react to a living entity...

Or not.

I often feel that some forms of gigging are more theatre than pure mechanical playing. The latter is just a sub element of the overall performance, and for most people actually the easiest part. Hence some bands you see are technically good but are completely not entertaining to watch. The theatrical element is missing entirely in lots of bands, as evidenced by the endless pics of musos onstage looking at their guitar necks or shoes.

stickyfiddle

Agree with much of this. I'm lucky that I've never had more than slight butterlfies before performing and honestly have never had a complete brain-fade where I forget what comes next.

Took me weeks to learn to play and sing though, and months to manage talking while playing. But I'll happily play an entire song with no more than 3 or 4 concious thoughts about cues and harmonies, but a constant running dialogue with myself about the bloke at the bar trying and failing to chat up the girl who's out of his league, or whatever.

ElectroDan

One of the worst things I've found that for affects live performance is a hangover. It's been many many years since I've played with a hangover but it used to cause huge mental blocks.

Nerves are also worsened by worrying about an upcoming passage and the ability to pull it off. Be that because of unfamiliarity, or it being at the limit of our ability. If the mechanical motions are thoroughly drilled into the sub-conscious, you are able to just rip into it with out concern and relax into the performance.

It's an old golfing quote, but they say the more you practice the luckier you get. I think this is true for performance confidence too.

 

jpfamps

octatonic said:

Gigging is like anything else- the more you do it, the better you get.

That's clearly not true.

Some people get better, whilst some people don't improve at all. 

Personally I need to gig regularly just to maintain a reasonable standard.

Practice does not make perfect: practice makes permanent.

lloyd

I used to get nervous and would make silly mistakes because of that, then I'd make more because I was thinking about that mistake and then worrying about the next bit that I could fuck up because it had a technical bit or I'd messed it up before.

Now I have done loads  of gigs and the nervousness isn't there anymore-at all. I buzz off playing live and look forward to it but I never get nervous. I do get apprehensive with a new song if we're pushing it out before it's quite ready so it's not 100% but it's not a nerves thing.

It helps that I play my songs, which are easy to play as I'm not a great guitarist...as @octatonic says it's a lot easier if you are a few levels above what you're being asked to play.

I imagine most of us would have zero issues with knocking out a few open chord songs, sat down with someone else singing.

Phil_aka_Pip

This book is interesting: The Inner Game of Music. Worth a read. It directly addresses @lloyd's first paragraph