Function band players need lots of sounds?

monquixote

I've seen this trotted out in forums and guitar magazines hundreds of times. 

Whenever you get a bit of kit with loads of mediocre sounds they always say: "I suppose it might be good for people in function bands that need a lot of sounds", but in my experience this is rubbish. 

I've played in loads of function / pub  bands and I've never needed a wide variety of sounds. 

Essentially once you've covered: spanky, slightly dirty, rawk, there is very little ground not covered.

In terms of other FX I've only ever played I think 2 songs that really required modulation (Police and Paul Weller)

A wah is often handy and unless you are doing U2 or similar you don't even really need a delay ( certainly hardly ever use one) 

I would postulate that almost any function gig could be covered with a Tele, HRD, TS, Rat, Crybaby so where does this whole "wide variety of sounds" stuff come from?

stickyfiddle

I never used delay in my old covers/function band. Like you I only really needed about 4 sounds - clean, crunchy, solo, swirly, dirty-swirly. And most of the time the swirly was used more when I was covering keys or synth or sax lines.

+/- reverb, and wah as appropriate. It depends on how obsessive you are about copying specific tones from records, but performance, tightness, energy, etc are FAR more important.

octatonic

You can get by with less and sometimes fake it.

I was on a tour and didn't have an amp with tremolo in it, or a trem pedal.

I did have a volume pedal- with a bit of practice I could simulate tremolo effect well enough that no-one complained about it.

It would be hard to do a RATM covers gig without a whammy though.

Plectrum

I think it must be an extension of the "nailing someone's tone" thing. All a bit silly IMHO as the punters couldn't care less. An why should the gutarist have to try to sound exactly like the original? Do they expect the singer to sound exactly like the original song's singer? It's all very strange

Drew_TNBD

octatonic said:

It would be hard to do a RATM covers gig without a whammy though.

Don't forget the Che Guevara baseball cap!

ESBlonde

I think the player is the most important part. Then the guitar/amp combination and then a few pedals to simulate all that fancy studio production.

I'm a big advocate of a nice clean amp then get a lot of variety from the guitar(s) controls and playing technique before introducing a select number of pedals.
Typically I have an overdrive, a wah, a chorus and a delay. these will be primarily set and forget in terms of knob twiddling (I have a comp available too) so that just the combinations of FX tel the listener it's emulating the original.
So I can cover Shania Twain to Charlot Church to Nile Rodgers to A taste of Honey to Paul Weller to Lady Marmalade to Dire straights to Elton John to Take that to Free to Spice Girls etc.
Sometimes having a specific effect like a slapback on Billy Joels 'still rock n' roll to me' or deep chorus/flange for Peaches and Herb 'Reunited' or a Fuzz like drive for Hot chocolate requires a swift bend to a knob twist but otherwise you can cover a lot with a little.

Often the audience member has the original recording playing back in their head so all you're doing is stirring that memory up and being 'live', so as long as you don't wander to far off base (at least until you've done a verse and chorus properly) they will forgive a lot.

Because live function work can involve eclectic and indeed erratic set lists, it pays to be able to 'do it' on the fly without remembering patches and having to tap dance. i think the punter won't notice an echo tail a beat or two before the overdriven solo if that saves you fluffing the first line or toppling over.

We all develop out own ways to gig comfortably, I'm comfy with mine.

kjdowd

Nonsense Drew. Think about a typical function band set. It's likely to include "How soon is Now", "Livin' on a prayer", Lots of Rage against the Machine, the Foo's 'generator'...

That's a talk box, formant, about three tremolos and a whammy before you've even started, plus about 5 amps for authenticity. Add in the fact that function gigs are only really attended by guitar obsessed audiophiles, and we being to see the holes in your argument 

failed_astronaut

When I was playing in a covers band I had the mentality of "I must recreate every sound I can" and it was a pain in the arse! The best covers guitarist I've seen used clean, dirt, more dirt and wah, all off of a BOSS GT-8 with a squier classic vibe tele and a peavey amp. If I was getting back into a pop/rock covers band, I'd do the same. The punters don't care as long as the vocals are alright.

Jalapeno

Half a dozen pedals (incl. a Tuner) should really get you through most things I've decided (after buying and selling brazillions of pedals).

However there's a few tunes that need very complex sounds - U2 stuff, some psychedelia - best bet IMHO is a Pod HD500x, and download tune-specific preset patches from the vast array on t'interweb.

or ...... get very good at tap dancing and have a pedal board of monstrous proportions and complexity.

Drew_TNBD

kjdowd said:

Nonsense Drew. Think about a typical function band set. It's likely to include "How soon is Now", "Livin' on a prayer", Lots of Rage against the Machine, the Foo's 'generator'...

That's a talk box, formant, about three tremolos and a whammy before you've even started, plus about 5 amps for authenticity. Add in the fact that function gigs are only really attended by guitar obsessed audiophiles, and we being to see the holes in your argument 

er....

I didn't start the thread!!

kjdowd

Drew_fx said:

kjdowd said:

Nonsense Drew. Think about a typical function band set. It's likely to include "How soon is Now", "Livin' on a prayer", Lots of Rage against the Machine, the Foo's 'generator'...

That's a talk box, formant, about three tremolos and a whammy before you've even started, plus about 5 amps for authenticity. Add in the fact that function gigs are only really attended by guitar obsessed audiophiles, and we being to see the holes in your argument 

er....

I didn't start the thread!!

Whoops! Sent a few emails to the wrong people as well today (Nothing disastrous thankfully!). Slow start to the week...

I believe I was confused by the Recent Discussions page, which has the name of the latest poster next to the OP. Must. Pay. More. Attention!

Sporky

kjdowd said:

Nonsense Drew. Think about a typical function band set. It's likely to include "How soon is Now", "Livin' on a prayer", Lots of Rage against the Machine, the Foo's 'generator'...

Could be worse - you could have "If you tolerate this..." on your setlist.

Not only would you need a Hammond and a load of studio outboard stuff, you'd also have to hear yourself play it. Over and over again.

fretmeister

Depends on the set list. If there is any Muse, Rush, ELO, etc etc and you haven't got a keys player, then the more the other instruments need to do. Many bassists refuse to do anything other than bass sounds (not me!) so that leaves the guitar.

Danny1969

I'm in 3 function bands. I basically use clean, crunch and dirty drive sounds from my amp  plus delay for the U2 songs and a bit of compression from a GT10 . 

A versatile guitar is useful. My superstrat has the full on humbucker sounds and the nice Knopler  \ Edge  \ RHCP single coil sounds. 

Most of being a good covers guitarist is the ability to imitate  the main meat of songs with the right attack, phrasing  and attitude rather than having a lot of gear. Now sometimes that can mean playing a part wrong oddly enough .... because sometimes you recreating a mix of 2 guitars and keys with one guitar and that means changing the part so what your playing is a blend that the punters will recognize straight away. 

kjdowd

Danny1969;987832" said:

I'm in 3 function bands. I basically use clean, crunch and dirty drive sounds from my amp  plus delay for the U2 songs and a bit of compression from a GT10 . 

A versatile guitar is useful. My superstrat has the full on humbucker sounds and the nice Knopler  \ Edge  \ RHCP single coil sounds. 

Most of being a good covers guitarist is the ability to imitate  the main meat of songs with the right attack, phrasing  and attitude rather than having a lot of gear. Now sometimes that can mean playing a part wrong oddly enough .... because sometimes you recreating a mix of 2 guitars and keys with one guitar and that means changing the part so what your playing is a blend that the punters will recognize straight away. 

There's an interview somewhere with Nile Rodgers saying that noone ever gets his guitars parts right when they cover them because often they are more than one guitar on the record (think the example he gave was le freak which he says even he can't play exactly as it is on the record). Like you say, it's all about recreating the memorable bits of the song and going from there.

monquixote

kjdowd said:

Danny1969;987832" said:

I'm in 3 function bands. I basically use clean, crunch and dirty drive sounds from my amp  plus delay for the U2 songs and a bit of compression from a GT10 . 

A versatile guitar is useful. My superstrat has the full on humbucker sounds and the nice Knopler  \ Edge  \ RHCP single coil sounds. 

Most of being a good covers guitarist is the ability to imitate  the main meat of songs with the right attack, phrasing  and attitude rather than having a lot of gear. Now sometimes that can mean playing a part wrong oddly enough .... because sometimes you recreating a mix of 2 guitars and keys with one guitar and that means changing the part so what your playing is a blend that the punters will recognize straight away. 

There's an interview somewhere with Nile Rodgers saying that noone ever gets his guitars parts right when they cover them because often they are more than one guitar on the record (think the example he gave was le freak which he says even he can't play exactly as it is on the record). Like you say, it's all about recreating the memorable bits of the song and going from there.

Similarly with Get Lucky which as he demonstrated on the recent Daft Punk doc is 3 parts layered on top of each other.

Danny1969

monquixote said:

kjdowd said:

Danny1969;987832" said:

I'm in 3 function bands. I basically use clean, crunch and dirty drive sounds from my amp  plus delay for the U2 songs and a bit of compression from a GT10 . 

A versatile guitar is useful. My superstrat has the full on humbucker sounds and the nice Knopler  \ Edge  \ RHCP single coil sounds. 

Most of being a good covers guitarist is the ability to imitate  the main meat of songs with the right attack, phrasing  and attitude rather than having a lot of gear. Now sometimes that can mean playing a part wrong oddly enough .... because sometimes you recreating a mix of 2 guitars and keys with one guitar and that means changing the part so what your playing is a blend that the punters will recognize straight away. 

There's an interview somewhere with Nile Rodgers saying that noone ever gets his guitars parts right when they cover them because often they are more than one guitar on the record (think the example he gave was le freak which he says even he can't play exactly as it is on the record). Like you say, it's all about recreating the memorable bits of the song and going from there.

Similarly with Get Lucky which as he demonstrated on the recent Daft Punk doc is 3 parts layered on top of each other.

Lets Dance too, it's just stabs that are played originally but the delays put on in post production give it the rhythm, so I just play what I think people expect to hear. 

stratman3142

I completely agree with the OP. Although not ideal, I could get by with just a clean amp and and overdrive pedal if I had to.

monquixote said:

I would postulate that almost any function gig could be covered with a Tele, HRD, TS, Rat, Crybaby so where does this whole "wide variety of sounds" stuff come from?

Yes that would be a be a good basic type of set up, but I'd use a Strat instead of a Tele, obviously . I'd like to have a boost so I've got all my sounds at rhythm and lead volume, but if I had to I could use to volume on the guitar. I just prefer the boost post the overdrive.

Danny1969 said:

Lets Dance too, it's just stabs that are played originally but the delays put on in post production give it the rhythm, so I just play what I think people expect to hear. 

That's my approach to that song.

Roland

Yeah, I did once program a complex delay pattern to mimic the record just to see whether I could do it. Live it sounds better to strum the repeats rather than use technology.

robinbowes

There's also a certain amount of "me" about nailing sounds in a covers band. When I last did it, I could have been minimal but I quite enjoyed getting as close as I could to the sounds of the tracks we covered.

Did I *need* to - no. Did I *want* to - yes!

R.

p90fool

octatonic said:

It would be hard to do a RATM covers gig without a whammy though.

I've faked bits of it with a glass slide before now.

Only guitar players care about that stuff, if they say anything I always ask them why they're not gigging tonight and I am.