Which Acoustic amp for my situation?

terada

Hi guys,

I have recently began working with my bands pianist for some acoustic stuff that we'd like to take to open mic nights etc. So I'm looking for something portable that we can bring to various places, and run vocals and a guitar through (and if possible a keyboard too, although I'm not sure such a product exists!).

I play a martin HD35 which I love, and sing, while he is on the keys.

Pickup wise I'm using a fishman rare earth soundhole pickup that I put in/remove as required. I hate the idea of having electronics installed in my acoustic!

In the past I've done the odd acoustic gig, but usually gone straight into the PA, but its not ideal as I often can't really hear myself.

So I've been thinking about picking up an acoustic amp. Looked at the AERs, but wonder whether they are overkill considering the soundhole pickup I'm using. Have also seen the Fishman loudbox mini online which seem to be priced well, but perhaps not enough power/quality for my requirements?

Any help would be massively appreciated!

Any thoughts guys?

crunchman

I've played a Loudbox Mini alongside an acoustic piano and it's fine for guitar and vocals at that kind of volume level.

You won't have enough inputs for a keyboard though.  It also won't be designed for the low frequencies at the bottom end of a piano and will almost certainly not handle it well.

You would either need a separate keyboard amp or be better off investing in a small PA.  Something like this may be worth a look:
http://www.andertons.co.uk/complete-pa-systems/pid44611/cid632/mackie-reach-professional-pa-system-w-6-channel-digital-mixer.asp

ICBM

The Marshall AS100 is quite good for that range of inputs. Don't try an AS50, they won't handle the bottom end of a keyboard and will probably shut down when the power IC protection cuts in.

Amazingly the cheap-as-chips LEEM/Meridian "Pro Multiple Amplifer" which you can sometimes pick up on Ebay or Gumtree for under £100 is surprisingly good too. Even with all the access to various acoustic amps I have, I've kept mine and it's seen off several possible replacements. It's not ultra-high-quality, but it just works!

terada

Thanks for the input guys, I've had a quick look. Seems like the marshall could be got relatively cheaply off ebay, couldn't find any meridian/LEEm units but they definitely sound interesting.

I have looked at the AER compact 60, but wonder whether with just a sound hole magnetic pickup (I don't want to install anything) I'd be wasting my money?

ICBM

terada said:

I have looked at the AER compact 60, but wonder whether with just a sound hole magnetic pickup (I don't want to install anything) I'd be wasting my money?

It will sound good with a magnetic pickup, but I don't think you could put keyboards through the AER - not the Compact 60 anyway, they do a bigger model (100W?). There would be a potential risk of damaging it.

Keyboards need a powerful amp that can produce and handle a fair amount of bottom end even if you're only doing light piano-type stuff. I would look at a minimum of 100W if you're going to be running keys and vocals as well as guitar - any less and you're likely to have to seriously compromise on tone, volume or separation in the mix.

Another possibility would be an older keyboard amp with a mic channel, although in that case you will need some sort of preamp for the guitar or you won't get a good sound really.

menamestom

I have a loudbox artist.  They sound very nice and add a bit of warmth compared to the AER's which I find very accurate and unforgiving, great if you have the best pickup system but the Loudbox colours the sound a little which I like, plus it is much more versatile than the AER.

A word of caution, the covering is rubbish, it will rub off and scuff very easily.  Don't buy new If you think you may sell it on fairly quickly.

terada

ICBM said:

terada said:

I have looked at the AER compact 60, but wonder whether with just a sound hole magnetic pickup (I don't want to install anything) I'd be wasting my money?

It will sound good with a magnetic pickup, but I don't think you could put keyboards through the AER - not the Compact 60 anyway, they do a bigger model (100W?). There would be a potential risk of damaging it.

Keyboards need a powerful amp that can produce and handle a fair amount of bottom end even if you're only doing light piano-type stuff. I would look at a minimum of 100W if you're going to be running keys and vocals as well as guitar - any less and you're likely to have to seriously compromise on tone, volume or separation in the mix.

Another possibility would be an older keyboard amp with a mic channel, although in that case you will need some sort of preamp for the guitar or you won't get a good sound really.

Thanks for the response. He does tend to hit hard on the piano, perhaps its better for him to get his own keyboard amp and for me to just concentrate on vocals/acoustic amplification.

I've read that when amplifying acoustics, the result is so far from what an actual acoustic sounds like that it can be best to just accept that and get something that'll give you a decent 'electroacoustic sound' and stop trying to recreate the subtleties that an acoustic instrument produces alone. If this is the case I'm pretty happy to go for something that is cheaper, and looks unassuming on stage (don't like to take anything too fancy with me, my chops don't justify it and with the martin I already have quite a valuable item to watch over!)

If I went down this route what would be the best companion to a bass-heavy acoustic with fishman rare earth pickup?

strtdv

Have you looked at the Acus stuff? I've not tried one myself, but the reviews are all excellent and they're a fair bit cheaper than AER.

erky32

Have a look at Thomanns PA4080 keyb'd amp, ...they really are good for small price (155€). I sold one 2-3 yrs back but just waiting delivery of a replacement new one, they are not fantastic, not a lot of EQ or control, ....but they do have 4 mic/XLR inputs, with gain&EQ, plus overall Treb?Mid?bass EQ & Vol & Reverb (not brilliant!!), drive 80w into a 12" Celestion + tweeter. They are a great open-mic/party, BBQ box ....grab & go PA! I replaced a Marshall AS50 with one ...much beefier sound!

ICBM

erky32 said:

Have a look at Thomanns PA4080 keyb'd amp, ...they really are good for small price (155€). I sold one 2-3 yrs back but just waiting delivery of a replacement new one, they are not fantastic, not a lot of EQ or control, ....but they do have 4 mic/XLR inputs, with gain&EQ, plus overall Treb?Mid?bass EQ & Vol & Reverb (not brilliant!!), drive 80w into a 12" Celestion + tweeter. They are a great open-mic/party, BBQ box ....grab & go PA! I replaced a Marshall AS50 with one ...much beefier sound!

That looks good. Basically an old-style PA mixer amp in a combo. With a 12" speaker and 80W it will handle keyboards OK, and even bass probably.

I would definitely want an external preamp/pedal with better EQ and anti-feedback for running an acoustic guitar through it, if possible - but other than that it looks ideal.

BigMonka

Personally I'd go with a separate keyboard amp so that you're not compromising as much on the guitar and vocal side. It would also allow you to get a bit of separation between the instruments on stage, which is sometimes nice.

Small PA might actually be more portable than some of the keyboard amps I've used in the past.

ChrisCox1994

For ease of quick change overs we plug everyone into the PA and make sure they have a nice monitor mix from our sound guy (he's a total pro and really accommodating) and this is on a rather big stage for my open mic in Chichester, everyone says they can hear themselves fine and the on stage sound is easier to control for the guy behind the desk, just talk to the sound guy in advance they're usually happy to help and make sure you have a great on stage sound that you're comfortable with.

Sassafras

http://www.cashgenerator.co.uk/product-guitar-amplifiers/meridian-100-watt-pro-amp-ka-1210m-combo-amplifier-collection-only-SR24780

ICBM

That's the one - and is the more robust Meridian version with the carpet covering… the LEEM has very cheap tolex that rips if you look at it wrong. It's not a 15" speaker though, it's a 12.

terada

That actually looks great. It says its out of stock though?

mfin

A friend has an AER for guitar/vocals, I have a Vox AGA70 which is quite similarly specced but was lots cheaper, I've not been left wishing I'd spent twice as much or whatever it was for his AER. I really think the Vox is great for the money, it's equally as impressive with vocals as it is with my guitars and is probably one of the best value bits of kit I've bought. I was really surprised by it and the connectivity is good.

spark240

I use the Roland AC 60, been quite impressed so far...has a dedicated mic input and I think a line input?