Thanks very much, Marshall.

ICBM

randella said:

Apologies, I wasn't trying to be contentious. These things matter to me too, but I was more trying to illustrate the emotional investment I and lots like me have in Marshall amps

I know - I grew up playing Marshalls, for me in the mid-80s they were the greatest amp company in the world and could do no wrong. The 80s JCM800s are still some of the best-made and the non-channel-switchers at least are some of the best-sounding amps ever.

And then I opened up a then-new JCM900 and was shocked by how poor it was, and how much solid-state stuff there was in a supposedly 'valve' amp. (And that's even given that I love what a good solid-state overdrive pedal does in front of a valve amp, too.) That was only the start - it really saddens me what they've done to their own brand and reputation over the last twenty or so years.

So like you I now play a Mesa (Trem-o-verb). It's the closest I can get to the Marshall sound I always wanted, but in an amp which is well-made, reliable and doesn't have any daft compromises which make you wonder if it couldn't actually sound better if only they hadn't done that…

The Jubilee is actually funny because it's one of the ones that shows that adding a few diodes to a valve amp isn't always a bad thing.

Mkjackary

ICBM said:

I see no-one has mentioned the diode clipping yet either

Yes, it's what it sounds like that counts, but it is a fact that these are essentially hybrid amps, of a sort - all-valve gain but solid-state (diode and LED) clipping. Make of that what you will...

I think that is a bit harsh, making the assumption that because it isn't tube, that it is bad. Plenty of great sounding amps have diode clipping, including the Jubilee that this is a direct descendant of. Also calling them hybrid amps is (imo) like calling a soldano or fender twin reverb a hybrid amp because of it's solid state rectifier. Or saying a victory v40 isnt all tube because the reverb isn't tube driven.

I would say that diode clipping is part of the amp's sound and that the amp is fairly sought after, so the sound can't be that bad. 

I understand you were just putting the point out there, not necessarily saying tube=good nontube=bad, but still.

Also remember a lot of people by amps like this, then run them clean and put a solid state pedal through it to get their distorted sound. Which is like having a diode clipping ^10, they still sound half good.

Raises an interesting point though, if you took a Jubilee and swapped the diode for another gain stage or two, would it sound 'better', certainly would be different, but would it be better or worse?

ICBM

I didn't at all make the assumption that non-valve is bad. I'm not against solid-state at all - in fact if you've read most of the nonsense I post you'll find I'm a big fan of all-solid-state amps too - I just think it's odd that the Jubilee often seems to get a free pass despite being not exactly all-valve. It's important to be accurate, what conclusion you draw is up to you!

Solid-state diode clipping is a lot different from a solid-state rectifier - it's directly in the signal path and actually creates the distortion characteristics. Perhaps 'hybrid' is a little harsh - since none of the amplification is non-valve - but it's certainly not an all-valve amp either… whereas amps with only solid-state rectifiers are considered to be all-valve because the rectifier is not in the signal path.

There is an amp where they took out the diode clipping and added another valve stage - the JCM900 SL-X which replaced the original 'High Gain MkIII'. I think most people think the SL-X sounds better.

randella

ICBM said:

randella said:

Apologies, I wasn't trying to be contentious. These things matter to me too, but I was more trying to illustrate the emotional investment I and lots like me have in Marshall amps

I know - I grew up playing Marshalls, for me in the mid-80s they were the greatest amp company in the world and could do no wrong. The 80s JCM800s are still some of the best-made and the non-channel-switchers at least are some of the best-sounding amps ever.

And then I opened up a then-new JCM900 and was shocked by how poor it was, and how much solid-state stuff there was in a supposedly 'valve' amp. (And that's even given that I love what a good solid-state overdrive pedal does in front of a valve amp, too.) That was only the start - it really saddens me what they've done to their own brand and reputation over the last twenty or so years.

So like you I now play a Mesa (Trem-o-verb). It's the closest I can get to the Marshall sound I always wanted, but in an amp which is well-made, reliable and doesn't have any daft compromises which make you wonder if it couldn't actually sound better if only they hadn't done that…

The Jubilee is actually funny because it's one of the ones that shows that adding a few diodes to a valve amp isn't always a bad thing.

Yep, the Mesa is a solid Marshall alternative alright. I got my minirec, ironically, for the same price as the mini-jube's RRP. It was used at GAK, but looked pretty much brand new when it turned up the next day.

I hate to derail this thread, but something's been nagging me. My Mesa has a solid-state rectifier, I guess a diode bridge. How does it get that lovely "sagginess"? Do they deliberately throttle the HT? I've a background in analogue electronics, but it was a long time ago

Evildurka

Just watched the official video. They are using 1x12 combo in the small Marshall combo size. It's never going to have crushing bass even with the pot maxed out. I'm more interested to see what this sounds like with an oversized 2x12 with v30's in. I expect it will sound epic.

ICBM

randella said:

I hate to derail this thread, but something's been nagging me. My Mesa has a solid-state rectifier, I guess a diode bridge. How does it get that lovely "sagginess"? Do they deliberately throttle the HT? I've a background in analogue electronics, but it was a long time ago

It's possible they've put some resistance in the power supply - I haven't seen inside one so I'm not sure. That's essentially all a valve rectifier does, except that the resistance of a valve is non-linear relative to current draw so an actual resistor doesn't sound quite the same... although if you can't compare the two it might be difficult to tell.

Evildurka said:

Just watched the official video. They are using 1x12 combo in the small Marshall combo size. It's never going to have crushing bass even with the pot maxed out. I'm more interested to see what this sounds like with an oversized 2x12 with v30's in. I expect it will sound epic.

That's true, and the 50W Jubilee combo is quite trebly-sounding even with a V30 in it, but this one should still sound fuller than it does in the video.

Babones

It might sound alright for the 15 minutes it works. Going by crappy YT vids, i think the Victory Sheriff 22/44 sounds better.

randella

ICBM said:

randella said:

I hate to derail this thread, but something's been nagging me. My Mesa has a solid-state rectifier, I guess a diode bridge. How does it get that lovely "sagginess"? Do they deliberately throttle the HT? I've a background in analogue electronics, but it was a long time ago

It's possible they've put some resistance in the power supply - I haven't seen inside one so I'm not sure. That's essentially all a valve rectifier does, except that the resistance of a valve is non-linear relative to current draw so an actual resistor doesn't sound quite the same... although if you can't compare the two it might be difficult to tell.

Ah, thanks for the info - interesting.

mike_l

randella said:

That's just the thing though, they do. Not only what I want, but they've one-upped what I want and made the mini-jubilee. I'm more than happy with the Boogie, but their timing is absolutely atrocious - I don't often suffer with the old gear acquisition syndrome, but this one's got me good.

You're new round here ain't ya?

It's obvious, as soon as someone gets something everyone wants one.

Welcome to GASville

kelv_w

Evildurka said:

Just watched the official video. They are using 1x12 combo in the small Marshall combo size. It's never going to have crushing bass even with the pot maxed out. I'm more interested to see what this sounds like with an oversized 2x12 with v30's in. I expect it will sound epic.

I didn't get the chance to check out the combo but I did manage to hear it through a 2X12V cab.

Here's a video recording. 

ICBM

Even at that volume and via a phone mic you can hear it sounds much better.

That chap is also playing it better.

randella

kelv_w said:

Evildurka said:

Just watched the official video. They are using 1x12 combo in the small Marshall combo size. It's never going to have crushing bass even with the pot maxed out. I'm more interested to see what this sounds like with an oversized 2x12 with v30's in. I expect it will sound epic.

I didn't get the chance to check out the combo but I did manage to hear it through a 2X12V cab.

Here's a video recording. 

I'd seen that clip a week or so ago - funny who crops up on these forums!

I agree with ICBM, there's a LOT more promise in the sound there, even on a smartphone mic - the Anderton's vid was the same.

Some tasty playing as well, looked as though the amp put a smile on your face?  What's the verdict?

impmann

Hmmm.... sorry but it still doesn't sound like a Jubilee 50... and that was a sound "of its time" IMHO and could be a little one dimensional, as it wouldn't do much else *well*. Great if you played a particular type of rawk but really it was just shades of the same thing, no matter what you did with the controls. I had a 50w head when I played in a UK-centric GnR type band in the early 90s and I got really fed up with it.

I'm sure it will sell well, though...

Evildurka

Balls, I really really want one now lol.

Mr_Bluesman

new Vid

randella

Yeah.

That's really not helped my GAS.

Why it was beyond the wit of Marshall's marketing to make a video like this I don't know.  Boogie's promo videos are great - they get the designers involved, even Randall Smith puts in an appearance from time to time.  I appreciate that Jim's not going to appear in a video any time soon, but couldn't they have got a few people involved in making the amp, got a few different players?  Something you could get your teeth into?  I know the Boogie vid pretty much sold me the minirec.

Ho hum.  Hopefully this Marshall will sell a shed load and they'll be all over the classifieds for bugger-all in about two years.