Is the line6 M5 being replaced

sgosden

I use the M5 live, mostly for different phaser / flange sounds, sometimes to add some octave down.

replaced the m9 on the board mostly because of how close the footswitches were together, but also because I can power it off a 4x4. saying that I do still knock both switches sometimes and end up switching to something stupid mid song.

the m5 sounds better off in bypass mode. I always found the m9 took something away from the tone, even at high volumes and gain. and maybe it was my imagination but there was always the underlying sound of an effect even when bypassed.

Fretwired

Teetonetal said:

You would think that line 6 would bring out a range of products based upon the helix technology... 

I think that will happen. Line 6 had an over extended product line .. too many similar products. Yamaha quickly rationalised the product range and will no doubt replace the M9/M13 as there will be demand for a high-quality FX box without the amp modelling.

The Spider range could also do with overhauling and I'm surprised that Line 6 doesn't take on Strymon and TC Electronic. It has the tech. The furture's bright for Line 6 with Yamaha's backing. Steinberg has gone from strength to strength since Yamaha took over.

crunchman

digitalscream said:

Surely, MIDI aside, the replacement for the M5 is the Zoom MS70CDR (or MS50BT if you want drives)?

If you're determined enough, it's not that difficult to make a little gadget which enables the MIDI control too.

As much some moan about the switching on the M5, it's still better than the Zoom AFAIK.  At least it has two footswitches to enable you to select sounds.

The switching is fine as long as you put the sounds you want in adjacent presets.

Digital_Igloo

impmann said:

When I left Line6, it didn't look like any replacement for the M5 (or anything else in the M-line) was scheduled. This was a great shame IMHO, as despite the problems/grumbles they were fantastic pedals - and they were actually more reliable than a lot of folks would say... I used to compile the failure data for worldwide warranty claims and these had a low percentage fail rate compared to other products - even with the switch problems that others bang on about.

I'd love to see an update on the M13 - something without amp modelling, similar flexibility in effects routing but with better stereo implementation, etc etc etc. BUT NO F*CKING CONNECTIVITY TO MY BLOODY SMARTPHONE, AS NOBODY WANTS TO USE THAT IN A LIVE CONTEXT (you could write that 50ft tall in neon letters outside the Calabassas office and they still wouldn't hear/read that).

Nobody HAS to use that in a live context, as both Firehawk FX and Firehawk 1500/FBV 3 cannot only be edited sans smartphone, but can edited with your feet while your hands are on the guitar. If you're bringing AMPLIFi 150 or 75 to a huge show, you're doing it wrong—they're specifically designed to sit in your living room/practice room/den.

And hey, if you can do better than our product managers, get up from your armchair. We're hiring.

impmann

@digital_igloo

I worked for Line6 for 10 years, chap. And I made my opinions VERY plain about the ludicrous nature of devising products that use mobiles to control them in a live environment whether it's used or not. For example I was *the only person* to question the worth of the frankly soppy FX100 - and who would want one - when it was debuted to us. I was made to feel like some kind of Luddite, but I think the first week's sales figures for that product showed I knew more about the market than the product management did.

I never understood Amplifi for home use, either. Too loud, and not good enough sound to replace a good home stereo and it solved a problem few of my guitar buying friends had, if any. And it was bulky - and useless live, despite the marketing spiel at launch.

Sorry but the Amplifi range and like was billed to us (the team) as what was going to save the company - it didn't. And it never was going to. Sorry if that sounds harsh but it's true. Sadly, Helix arrived too late - but was the product that was needed three years earlier. And it wasn't as though we didn't say so!

Line6 may be hiring but having been made redundant by them I don't really fancy relocating to the US. I've done my time in the MI, and tbh I don't miss it - I'm enjoying doing something creative instead. I still consider Susan and Marcus as friends, though. Say hi from Tim. :-)

Line6 deserve to do well but NEED to stop trying to out-think guitarists as to what the market wants. Stop trying to revolutionise and start looking to become THE BEST at modelling again.

monquixote

meltedbuzzbox said:

isnt the firehawk a smaller helix?

Nope, it's not even using the HD technology. 

It's a whizzy interface on top of a POD XT.

EDIT: It's POD HD technology.

olafgarten

monquixote;1012299" said:

meltedbuzzbox said:

isnt the firehawk a smaller helix?





Nope, it's not even using the HD technology. 

It's a whizzy interface on top of a POD XT.

I'm quite sure the Firehawk has the HD Models, it is the Amplifi that doesn't.

olafgarten

Fretwired;1010432" said:

Teetonetal said:

You would think that line 6 would bring out a range of products based upon the helix technology... 





I think that will happen. Line 6 had an over extended product line .. too many similar products. Yamaha quickly rationalised the product range and will no doubt replace the M9/M13 as there will be demand for a high-quality FX box without the amp modelling.



The Spider range could also do with overhauling and I'm surprised that Line 6 doesn't take on Strymon and TC Electronic. It has the tech. The furture's bright for Line 6 with Yamaha's backing. Steinberg has gone from strength to strength since Yamaha took over.

Isn't Steinberger owned by Gibson instead of Yamaha.

monquixote

olafgarten said:

monquixote;1012299" said:

meltedbuzzbox said:

isnt the firehawk a smaller helix?





Nope, it's not even using the HD technology. 

It's a whizzy interface on top of a POD XT.

I'm quite sure the Firehawk has the HD Models, it is the Amplifi that doesn't.

Ah yes my mistake

rossyamaha

olafgarten said:

Fretwired;1010432" said:

Teetonetal said:

You would think that line 6 would bring out a range of products based upon the helix technology... 





I think that will happen. Line 6 had an over extended product line .. too many similar products. Yamaha quickly rationalised the product range and will no doubt replace the M9/M13 as there will be demand for a high-quality FX box without the amp modelling.



The Spider range could also do with overhauling and I'm surprised that Line 6 doesn't take on Strymon and TC Electronic. It has the tech. The furture's bright for Line 6 with Yamaha's backing. Steinberg has gone from strength to strength since Yamaha took over.

Isn't Steinberger owned by Gibson instead of Yamaha.

Steinberger (headless guitars) is Gibson, I think. Steinberg (Cubase, Nuendo etc) owned by Yamaha.

olafgarten

rossyamaha;1012333" said:

olafgarten said:

Fretwired;1010432" said:Teetonetal said:



You would think that line 6 would bring out a range of products based upon the helix technology... 











I think that will happen. Line 6 had an over extended product line .. too many similar products. Yamaha quickly rationalised the product range and will no doubt replace the M9/M13 as there will be demand for a high-quality FX box without the amp modelling.







The Spider range could also do with overhauling and I'm surprised that Line 6 doesn't take on Strymon and TC Electronic. It has the tech. The furture's bright for Line 6 with Yamaha's backing. Steinberg has gone from strength to strength since Yamaha took over.

Isn't Steinberger owned by Gibson instead of Yamaha.





Steinberger (headless guitars) is Gibson, I think. Steinberg (Cubase, Nuendo etc) owned by Yamaha.

OK, just misread the reply.

gubble

@digital_igloo

I worked for Line6 for 10 years, chap. And I made my opinions VERY plain about the ludicrous nature of devising products that use mobiles to control them in a live environment whether it's used or not. For example I was *the only person* to question the worth of the frankly soppy FX100 - and who would want one - when it was debuted to us. I was made to feel like some kind of Luddite, but I think the first week's sales figures for that product showed I knew more about the market than the product management did.

Well done to you sir for standing up !

The thing I really dislike about all the modern modelling stuff is the huge emphasis on using your mobile device to control things. Yes I have an iPhone but I really do not want it to control my amp or FX unit. I understand you don't need to have a compatible mobile device to use these products but why can't they spend the money spent developing the app on either developing the product or reducing the price point and making it more accessible to those with a lower budget.

I personally feel that having a tactile approach with the product is much more satisfying for the consumer rather than using your phone to control it.

crunchman

Tablets and phones are useful for some things.

The Toneprint app on the TC pedals is good - if only you could actually rely on the pedals not breaking.

The ability that modern digital desks have to control things from an iPad, or to control your personal monitor mix from your phone is nice.  Pro quality desks always have a hardware option to fall back on though.

It's picking the right uses for the technology that is the trick.

digitalscream

Digital_Igloo said:

impmann said:

When I left Line6, it didn't look like any replacement for the M5 (or anything else in the M-line) was scheduled. This was a great shame IMHO, as despite the problems/grumbles they were fantastic pedals - and they were actually more reliable than a lot of folks would say... I used to compile the failure data for worldwide warranty claims and these had a low percentage fail rate compared to other products - even with the switch problems that others bang on about.

I'd love to see an update on the M13 - something without amp modelling, similar flexibility in effects routing but with better stereo implementation, etc etc etc. BUT NO F*CKING CONNECTIVITY TO MY BLOODY SMARTPHONE, AS NOBODY WANTS TO USE THAT IN A LIVE CONTEXT (you could write that 50ft tall in neon letters outside the Calabassas office and they still wouldn't hear/read that).

Nobody HAS to use that in a live context, as both Firehawk FX and Firehawk 1500/FBV 3 cannot only be edited sans smartphone, but can edited with your feet while your hands are on the guitar. If you're bringing AMPLIFi 150 or 75 to a huge show, you're doing it wrong—they're specifically designed to sit in your living room/practice room/den.

And hey, if you can do better than our product managers, get up from your armchair. We're hiring.

The problem is that, in eschewing MIDI and an effects loop for the sake of USB and mobile control, Line 6 (and a lot of other manufacturers) have removed incredibly useful features in favour of things that are only useful occasionally at home. I was all up for a Firehawk FX unit that I could use to control my amp at the same time, but since there's no way to use it in 4CM or to talk to something like a Control Switcher, that idea's dead in the water. I don't want or need amp modelling, but a reasonably-sized effects-only unit would be absolutely spot-on.

MIDI and a single effects loop are not "pro-only" features. They're simple things and problems that have been solved many, many times over by many, many different manufacturers (including yourselves). Not only that, they've been done in so-called low-end gear like the Digitech GSP1101 - that's in the £250 range.

Stop cutting out the useful-all-the-time stuff to be replaced with the sometimes-useful-gimmicks, and these things would almost certainly get more traction.

impmann

That was exactly what I said!

But apparently I was "on my own " with that opinion.

Sadly some people seem to think that having a USP gimmick is more important than actually giving folks stuff that *they* know will be useful.

And frankly controlling a guitar amp or effects unit by your phone IS a gimmick and doesn't solve a problem for musicians.

digitalscream

impmann said:

That was exactly what I said!

But apparently I was "on my own " with that opinion.

Sadly some people seem to think that having a USP gimmick is more important than actually giving folks stuff that *they* know will be useful.

And frankly controlling a guitar amp or effects unit by your phone IS a gimmick and doesn't solve a problem for musicians.

Well, the key point about multi-effects gear for me is that it has to admit that it can't do everything, so being able to talk to other devices in your rig is absolutely crucial.

Note to manufacturers: my phone is not part of my rig, and will always be in plane mode to prevent any digital interference. Therefore it's totally useless.

gubble

Imagine the scene:

Mid gig between songs, get your smart phone out to change a patch. The audience will think "well that's rude he's checking out facebook mid gig"

hyperfee

digitalscream said:

impmann said:

That was exactly what I said!

But apparently I was "on my own " with that opinion.

Sadly some people seem to think that having a USP gimmick is more important than actually giving folks stuff that *they* know will be useful.

And frankly controlling a guitar amp or effects unit by your phone IS a gimmick and doesn't solve a problem for musicians.

Well, the key point about multi-effects gear for me is that it has to admit that it can't do everything, so being able to talk to other devices in your rig is absolutely crucial.

Note to manufacturers: my phone is not part of my rig, and will always be in plane mode to prevent any digital interference. Therefore it's totally useless.

hyperfee

Keeping things to the M5: it does have a good MIDI implementation (apart from the lack of MIDI Thru). If they can get their gear sorted in that regard they'd be on to a winner—it's there for the guy/girl who needs it and if not it can be ignored. 

Likewise with the mobile editing. Between Line6, TC Electronic and Source Audio they have a decent amount of deep editing functions which are much more easy to operate than on a small screen with minimal knobs—if you want it. If not, ignore it. 

But, Line 6, don't depart from the almost perfect MIDI functionality in the M5 if you decide to replace it. Give it MIDI Thru; heck, even give it mobile functionality. 

Also, how good would it be to see one of these that rival your Strymons of this world that are at a £100-200 price point!?

MattBanshee

For the £50 I paid for my M5 (used), it's a phenomenonally good pedal. Even if I just used one single delay patch it'd still be worth the money for a digital stereo delay with tap tempo - I paid more for my Headrush and it does the same thing. I only keep the headrush as I sometimes use the M5 for trem and don't want to lose the ability to have delay too.