i want to 'valve up' my guitar and bass sound to di into a focusrite. mini amp? valve pre? ideas?

tabbycat

hey fretboard musicians, home recorders and seasoned pros (gotta love a seasoned pro)...

basic question is what kind of mini valve amps, valve pre-drive etc, can i use to valve up my guitar tone when di-ing? am on a pretty strict budget of £100 max.

i bought myself a focusrite 2i2 at christmas with the intention of getting into some serious bedroom recording. it comes with software i have no idea how to use (ableton, etc) but will work that bit out eventually.

i've only ever recorded 'serious' stuff in studio or rehearsal spaces, so could use a valve amp for guitars at full spank. due to illness i'm now housebound for a while, so that's no longer an option. this is a guitar problem really, synth and electric drums can go di but i like valve distortion for guitar and bass. 

my laney is 30w valve and will peel the paper from the walls if i fire her up, so no go.

have looked at the orange micro terror, which looks toyish and gimmicky. it sounds good dirty but doesn't seem to have much in cleans. line out and headphones.
the blackstar ht1w also has line out and headphones and sounds great clean and dirty in yt clips, limited though they are.
other things or radar like the laney cub series and the epihone valve junior might be tweakable for a line out (i can build 9v guitar pedals so minor mods possible but couldn't build an amp). they sound good too.
all those come in at well under the hundred used.

so what do you use?

re amps i like british rock amps, more early 70s laney and orange tones than 80s metal marshall.
i love fat-assed and course grained rock distortion with option of cleans. i don't really get on with slimy fine-grit metal widdle amps, or doom chuggachugga amps.

i've built a few amp sims, ampeg, orange, marshall, and i have the rog condor speaker sim on the way (built but not boxed or tested). maybe they need the rog at the end to sound good. without it they are ok but generally feel like grit and a tonestack rather than amp dynamics and spirit.

so the blackstar looks favourite for me atm. it looks like it will do this job and will make a nice practice amp too (combo) which is a nice bonus, but would be interested to hear any for or against reviews.

many thanks.if you can offer any advice or recommendations. this is a completely new science to me so appealing to wiser heads before making my move.

monquixote

Personally I'd go straight into the desk and get a copy of scuffham s gear

Sporky

I got on well using an ART Tube Pre and a Behringer GI400 DI box - the latter has an acceptable (to me) speaker simulator.

I tried having the Behringer on the speaker out of my amps (Cornell Romany and MJW Roadstar) or before the input, with and without a home-made dummy load, and it didn't make a huge amount of difference. That said I ran the amps clean.

A bit of EQ and you're off.

starwarsnosebleed

I am currently searching for a solution for the same predicament, and having read a few pages back into the 'recording' section, somebody suggested this relatively cheap option.
http://www.ratvalveamps.com/dummy-load

That way your amp can still be used, without having a cab plugged in, direct into your focusrite.

tabbycat

@monquixote will watch some demos of how the scuffham s-gearsoftware works. tbh am coming at this from tape/cd multitrack demoing days, so even the concept of doing things on a computer is entirely alien to me. still have a hardware 'plug this box into this box and sound comes out' mentality. but want to learn so thank you for the tip.

@sporky thanks for the tip. have seen that art thing around for a while but never got involved. obviously worthy of my closer inspection. am not sure if what the behringer does isn't already covered by the focusrite.

@starwarsnosebleed that looks really interesting, and something i might even be able to build myself, if it is just basically converting excess load to heat. if i built one and got hold of any decent 1w valve combo that would press all the buttons. thanks for the link.

Sporky

I have the same Focusrite, and used the Behringer into it.

I've got the ART up for sale as I've gone Helix - http://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/comment/918932/#Comment_918932

sweepy

http://www.thomann.de/gb/art_pro_mpa_ii.htm?ref=search_rslt_Art+valve+_232662_24 Worth every penny

vaticancameos

sweepy said:

http://www.thomann.de/gb/art_pro_mpa_ii.htm?ref=search_rslt_Art+valve+_232662_24 Worth every penny

I use one of these, swapped the tubes out for some NOS Mullards

JezWynd

I've used a Little-Bear 12AU7 G2 preamp from China like this -

I used to run a pair of them into Stereo Vox Pathfinder 15R's, they really added a nice soft edge to the Pathfinders' tone. The 12AU7 version can't give a distorted sound but with Gain maxed ( V / T /G) they added a nice bit of rasp to the sound. They do a 12AX7 version too I think with more OD available. Obviously not for gigging but they do work very well. They were about 15ukp iirc.

I've been using it more recently into a Fender 40w SS Bass Amp, works well there too.

Only available from China at present i think -

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LITTLE-BEAR-G2-TUBE-PEDAL-BOOSTER-OVERDRIVE-12AU7-WARM-TUBE-VALVE-EFFECTOR-/300852595659?hash=item460c364bcb:g:2dEAAMXQOT5RA9uC

I may still have the other one somewhere, PM me if you are interested in it.

starwarsnosebleed

@JezWynd that looks a really great little toy, if @tabbycat passes on it, i'll have it.

thermionic

£100 will get you a used Vox Tonelab (desktop version). It has an ECC83 with the triodes emulating a push-pull output stage, and this really gives a good amp-like feel compared to other modellers I've used. There's something about the random nature of the hum and crackle that makes it sound like a miked up amp in the next room. I usually use the AC30/Celestion Blues models, but the Fender tweed/blackface and Marshall JCM800 are also very useable and realistic sounds. Bass goes through the Fender Bassman 4x10 model.

Definitely my favourite recording gadget since the Portastudio.

tabbycat

many thanks for the ideas and recommendations all.

will get down to some research and demo watching and report back.

@sweepy and @vaticancameos the art pro mpa looks like sweet kit but triple my budget new and probably unlikely to turn up used under £100, so one to aspire to atm. but will check it out for reference.

@sporky may come back to you on the art over the next few days, looks very useful but need to read up a bit more to see if it will suit.

@jezwynd thanks for the link. will have a read up and pm you. does it run at 9v/12v? that seems quite low unless they are being used more in a clipping role than an amplifying role. haven't looked at these at all to date but will.

@thermionic will look at the tonelab. sounds like a must hear for demos. best gadget since the portastudio is praise indeed.

Adji

I'm probably going to sell my peavey tube sweeter which might fit the bill for you. I've used it as a Di and as outboard for adding 'valveness' to digital or dry sounds.

tabbycat

thanks for the offer @Adji have settled on the idea of getting a blackstar ht1 to cover both small practice amp and tube recording output in one. but will look into the peavey and keep it in mind if the blackstar doesn't deliver as required.