Transformer Failed? Thinking about a TAD Replacement?

martinw

Expecting German quality and good customer service?

Forget it.

Recently had a TAD replacement mains transformer fail, so emailed them for support. There answer was to say that, because the amp had had a mains transformer fail before (fairly obviously) that the failure must have been caused by an amp fault, so they wouldn't consider a warranty claim.

When I pointed out this circular logic, sent pic of the amp and transformer, and discussed what tests and inspections I had carried out, what other tests they would suggest, and whether or not I should return the PT for their examination, their response was to ignore me.

Their attitude seems to start at the point that their product is perfect, so the customer must be wrong. I thought we'd moved past that sort of thing?

Reminds me of the time I complained to Thomann that a gig bag had holes in it, and they stated that it was because the guitar was "the wrong size". At that point, they didn't know what kind of guitar had been in it.

Danny1969

My mum knitted a jumper for me once, it was too small. My Dad remarked I was too big for it!

If the transformer was operating within spec and failed while operating within spec then it should be covered under warranty, I mean they are not exactly cheap so it will be a fair cost to swollow 

ecc83

I cannot think of a fault condition OTTOMH that would cause mains transformer failure in an amplifier that had been properly designed and intelligently fused?

I only had a handful of PTs fail. One was because the punter kept feeding it fuses all night as the GZ34 kept flashing over. One had a rattly internal lamm' and a third had a bias winding short one end to frame in a pre prod chassis, never had it again.

Shits!

Dave.

McToot

Never trust the Hun. 

Trustless

And

Deceitful

jpfamps

martinw said:

Expecting German quality and good customer service?

Forget it.

Recently had a TAD replacement mains transformer fail, so emailed them for support. There answer was to say that, because the amp had had a mains transformer fail before (fairly obviously) that the failure must have been caused by an amp fault, so they wouldn't consider a warranty claim.

When I pointed out this circular logic, sent pic of the amp and transformer, and discussed what tests and inspections I had carried out, what other tests they would suggest, and whether or not I should return the PT for their examination, their response was to ignore me.

Their attitude seems to start at the point that their product is perfect, so the customer must be wrong. I thought we'd moved past that sort of thing?

Reminds me of the time I complained to Thomann that a gig bag had holes in it, and they stated that it was because the guitar was "the wrong size". At that point, they didn't know what kind of guitar had been in it.

What bollocks.

They just want to get out of sending you a replacement.

I've seen plenty of amps where the mains transformer has died under it's own steam rather than as a consequence of failure else where in the amp. In fact I've got a Musicman amp in the workshop at the moment with such a fault.

Even if there is a fault with the amp you can energise it through a current limiter with a Variac to avoid damaging the new transformer. Regardless if a fault in the amp caused the transformer to die, it's usually very obvious and easy to test, before fitting the transformer.

Do they know you do amp repairs/ build amps for a living?

Also what amp is it?

martinw

ecc83 said:

I cannot think of a fault condition OTTOMH that would cause mains transformer failure in an amplifier that had been properly designed and intelligently fused?

It's a Peavey Classic 30, and is fused on both secondaries, and the primary. None of those blew. No other symptoms, apart from clearly melted gunk oozing out of the PT windings.

They are known for eating their PTs....I've changed several.

I specifically got the TAD one believing that it had been designed and built to be superior to the original, and indeed the stack size is bigger, so they've obviously not just slavishly copied the original design.

I should add in fairness that the PT was a couple of weeks outside a 12 month warranty period, but my customer had only used it 3 or 4 times since the repair, as it's a back-up. (He's a pro player and has a lot of gear). If they'd said: "Sorry mate, the warranty is only 12 months" I'd have still complained, as you'd expect a big company to stand behind their products a bit more than the bare minimum.

Shits!

Dave.

Yep. I've emailed the MD, and done the Twitter thing too. Let's see what that does.

martinw

jpfamps said:

martinw said:

Expecting German quality and good customer service?

Forget it.

Recently had a TAD replacement mains transformer fail, so emailed them for support. There answer was to say that, because the amp had had a mains transformer fail before (fairly obviously) that the failure must have been caused by an amp fault, so they wouldn't consider a warranty claim.

When I pointed out this circular logic, sent pic of the amp and transformer, and discussed what tests and inspections I had carried out, what other tests they would suggest, and whether or not I should return the PT for their examination, their response was to ignore me.

Their attitude seems to start at the point that their product is perfect, so the customer must be wrong. I thought we'd moved past that sort of thing?

Reminds me of the time I complained to Thomann that a gig bag had holes in it, and they stated that it was because the guitar was "the wrong size". At that point, they didn't know what kind of guitar had been in it.

What bollocks.

They just want to get out of sending you a replacement.

I've seen plenty of amps where the mains transformer has died under it's own steam rather than as a consequence of failure else where in the amp. In fact I've got a Musicman amp in the workshop at the moment with such a fault.

Even if there is a fault with the amp you can energise it through a current limiter with a Variac to avoid damaging the new transformer. Regardless if a fault in the amp caused the transformer to die, it's usually very obvious and easy to test, before fitting the transformer.

Do they know you do amp repairs/ build amps for a living?

Also what amp is it?

Sorry, crossed posts! It's a Peavey Classic 30.

Yes, I have informed them that I build and repair amps for a living (without giving it the big "Do you know who I am?"   ) and I've got pretty technical with the information I've given them, so it's disappointing that they've replied to me as if I have no knowledge of the subject.

I too have changed mains transformers on many amps which have failed spontaneously, but the guy I was emailing pretty much insisted that there must be an external fault to make the TAD PT fail

martinw

Danny1969 said:

My mum knitted a jumper for me once, it was too small. My Dad remarked I was too big for it!

Lol! Just the sort of thing my dad would have said!

If the transformer was operating within spec and failed while operating within spec then it should be covered under warranty, I mean they are not exactly cheap so it will be a fair cost to swollow 

Exactly. I could have ordered one from BLS (now Transtronic), but they had a 6 week lead time.

DJH83004

That is bizarre, when I read your first post, I thought Classic 30 straight away, because of the odd 30v heater supply winding, you really have to go like for like, and I don't know anyone else but TAD who supply them at anything like a reasonable price.

The thing is, the originals (and replacements) do really do run hot, and I have often wondered whether the original design is only marginally rated for the duty (and therefore similarly designed replacements suffer the same fate - though as you say there are enhancements over the original)

   

jpfamps

martinw said:

Danny1969 said:

My mum knitted a jumper for me once, it was too small. My Dad remarked I was too big for it!

Lol! Just the sort of thing my dad would have said!

If the transformer was operating within spec and failed while operating within spec then it should be covered under warranty, I mean they are not exactly cheap so it will be a fair cost to swollow 

Exactly. I could have ordered one from BLS (now Transtronic), but they had a 6 week lead time.

Peavey Classic 30 transformer failure very common indeed.

Increasing the stack size helps a bit, but the winding window is still the same size so you can't use thicker wire.

I've had a very poor experience with BLS, although no issue with the quality of their work.

RiftAmps

martinw said:

ecc83 said:

I cannot think of a fault condition OTTOMH that would cause mains transformer failure in an amplifier that had been properly designed and intelligently fused?

It's a Peavey Classic 30, and is fused on both secondaries, and the primary. None of those blew. No other symptoms, apart from clearly melted gunk oozing out of the PT windings.

They are known for eating their PTs....I've changed several.

I specifically got the TAD one believing that it had been designed and built to be superior to the original, and indeed the stack size is bigger, so they've obviously not just slavishly copied the original design.

I should add in fairness that the PT was a couple of weeks outside a 12 month warranty period, but my customer had only used it 3 or 4 times since the repair, as it's a back-up. (He's a pro player and has a lot of gear). If they'd said: "Sorry mate, the warranty is only 12 months" I'd have still complained, as you'd expect a big company to stand behind their products a bit more than the bare minimum.

I will say that I too have replaced 6 stock PTs on Classic 30s with the same fault, all completed melted and all had one blown EL84.

All of the ones I worked on, only two of the 4 x EL84s had 100r g2 resistors and the other two didn't. I suspect that when one of the 'unprotected' (if I can call them that) valves shorted, the current draw increased enough to slowly melt a PT but not blow a fuse. Of course, I've yet to absolutely confirm this but it's my best theory so far and haven't had a C30 in for a while to do further testing.

I fitted 470r screen resistors to all four valves, added a bias pot and they've not blown a PT since.

jpfamps

I've replaced several Peavey 30 / Delta Blues power transformer too.

Virtually all of them had no other fault with the amp.

I do remember one had been left on all night......

jpfamps

DJH83004 said:

That is bizarre, when I read your first post, I thought Classic 30 straight away, because of the odd 30v heater supply winding, you really have to go like for like, and I don't know anyone else but TAD who supply them at anything like a reasonable price.

The thing is, the originals (and replacements) do really do run hot, and I have often wondered whether the original design is only marginally rated for the duty (and therefore similarly designed replacements suffer the same fate - though as you say there are enhancements over the original)

   

I think you hit the nail on the head, the PT is right on the edge, and possibly the 240V mains in the UK pushes envelope over the limit.

I suspect a number of failures are due to an internal thermal fuse.

The stack is on the small side.

ICBM

As you would expect I've had a few C30s through with blown PTs as well - three I think, which is not *that* many but is still a pattern. To date I have always replaced them with the official Peavey unit, since it seemed the path of least resistance - I really like most of their gear but the C30 is their worst amp in my opinion, quite poorly designed, despite its popularity - given that they don't fail *that* often. That may change now Peavey no longer has a UK operation.

Aside from the screen resistor design fault, I found what I think is another one recently - it's in the 'Hammond ate my C30' thread, the resistor feeding the -30/-15V rails is too low a value. It's probably not enough to fail the PT, although a short in that part of the LT circuit might increase the current draw a lot without quite blowing the fuse either.

martinw

Well, I've emailed them 3 times with no reply, the last titled "Complaint - for the attention of Andreas Hecke" (The MD).

(I'd also emailed them with replies 2 or 3 times before that)

I tweeted again this morning (which of course gets an instant reply) but they are claiming to have replied to my emails. I've had no reply since 31/3, nearly 3 weeks ago, apart from an automated reply to a contact from submission. I have no spam filtering on my email account, so it isn't that.

:x   Fuming.

https://twitter.com/mjwamps/status/722366225490276352

ICBM

Well this has certainly put me off ordering anything from them that has any potential for failure whatsoever.

martinw

It gets worse.

After initially claiming they had  replied, now they're saying they deliberately didn't reply because I threatened to 'talk bad about them'.

I assume that means 'tell the truth'.

Way to go.

https://twitter.com/tubeampdoctor/status/722377007959580674

Modulus_Amps

There was a discussion about the TAD Peavey replacements a few months ago on one of the Facebook groups, they unwound the transformer and found some of the most shoddiest soldering you will ever see in your entire life!. I can't find the thread now, but may be worthwhile having a deeper look if it has only been played a few times and they won't accept returns.

ICBM

Modulus_Amps said:

There was a discussion about the TAD Peavey replacements a few months ago on one of the Facebook groups, they unwound the transformer and found some of the most shoddiest soldering you will ever see in your entire life!

Was it definitely shoddy to begin with, or the result of overheating when it failed? It can end up looking a bit similar - if you've ever seen the joints on a typical overheated Zener diode in a solid-state amp you'll know!

RiftAmps

The last time I checked, those TADs were made by Heyboer which aren't known for their high failure rate. Still, just read the Twitter conversation....

martinw

The latest development is an offer to bury the hatchet (yes, in my head, that's what I thought ) and a request that I send the PT back, which I am, and have always been, happy to do.

At NO point did I say I wouldn't send the PT back, and in fact requested instructions to do so. I was hoping not to have to, but there you go. I'm not convinced they can learn much from it anyway.

I appreciate that English isn't their first language, but can't help but feel that after a certain point they haven't even read my emails.

You can see from Twitter what their attitude was like, but it makes even less sense when you see the email chain leading up to it. It's like they went off and sulked!

And bear in mind, through all this, their first response was "unlucky mate, not our problem" and it's only through all this grief I've got to this point, as far as that may get me.