Programming Drums - where to start?

SquireJapan

So ... given I never get out of the house with my guitar, I've decided to find myself a cheap drum machine and learn how to programme some parts.

Problem is, beyond a "four on the floor", and some hi-hats on the 16ths (and maybe a snare on the off beats...)

Where to start? Any secrets, or should I just keep doing what I'm doing and trying to figure the things out?

Cheers!

guitarfishbay

Are you programming in a DAW?  What drum software are you using?  Many of them have included grooves you can use to start off with, then edit the MIDI to your needs in the DAW.  That is often a good way to start and in many cases the included midi grooves were initially played in by a real drummer.

Beyond that you're going to have to do a lot of listening and learning about how drummers play in the genre you're writing, if you want the best results.

Sporky

One of the main things is to remember that most drummers have only two hands and two feet, so don't have more than four things being hit at the same time.

So if you've got a cymbal hit at the same time as a hi-hat and a snare, drop the hat. Or use a pedal close sound for the hat, not a hit-with-drum-club sound.

kuryakin85

Whats the end goal? All depends on what kind of sound you want to achieve as to how you approach constructing the parts. If you have access to Garageband, with a bit of effort the automatic drummer can actually provide something pretty solid to facilitate songwriting/jamming. Programming a machine to sound like a human is HARD, so many variations in velocity and incidentals that it takes a lot of attention to detail to get anywhere close!

SquireJapan

kuryakin85 said:

Whats the end goal? All depends on what kind of sound you want to achieve as to how you approach constructing the parts. If you have access to Garageband, with a bit of effort the automatic drummer can actually provide something pretty solid to facilitate songwriting/jamming. Programming a machine to sound like a human is HARD, so many variations in velocity and incidentals that it takes a lot of attention to detail to get anywhere close!

Good point - I could have done with mentioning why ...

I really just want to play with making songs, but probably starting with trying to make some chord progressions sound a bit more interesting. Actually working it through, I should really start with copying things, as one of the things I'd like to understand is how the drums interact with the guitar and bass.

I might get some value getting some drumming books...

I have an old Roland R8 that I need to learn how to program. I do have a DAW, but computers are scary.

octatonic

Learn to think like a drummer.

Or get a drummer to program your drum tracks.

All hand patterns are a combination of very few options.

hobbio

I think the R8 has Feel Patches (or something), which I believe is their version of a "humanise" function. Humanising beats is essential if you want anything to sound realistic, as it basically plays what you've programmed as if it was a real drummer, ie, with two hands and two feet.

octatonic

hobbio said:

I think the R8 has Feel Patches (or something), which I believe is their version of a "humanise" function. Humanising beats is essential if you want anything to sound realistic, as it basically plays what you've programmed as if it was a real drummer, ie, with two hands and two feet.

Humanising functions rarely give the right sound.

It messes with the velocities and timings of things but not the way a drummer would- but it sound better than it being stiff.

Things have somewhat moved on from that anyway since the modern drum sound on commercial records is quantised and compressed within an inch of its life anyway.

hobbio

It's all triggered samples too, right? I read somewhere that on any studio recording made after the mid 80's you're not hearing the real drum sound.

I totally agree that humanising is a million miles from a real human, but it's better than 100% computer. Also, it won't get pissed and try to shag the bass player's bird.

hugbot

Snare determines the general pace and "march" of the song (in popular usic this is commonly the backbeat, 2 and 4 but theres no rules you can't mix it up) Hi hats can be a straight counting of the tempo or swung/patterned to give a bit of feel. Kick drum works with the bass instrument to accentuate the groove. Crashes add excitement, accentuate certain hits or announce the arrival of a new section. 

Drum style in general is hugely dependant on genre. 

guitarfishbay

hobbio said:

It's all triggered samples too, right? I read somewhere that on any studio recording made after the mid 80's you're not hearing the real drum sound.

I totally agree that humanising is a million miles from a real human, but it's better than 100% computer. Also, it won't get pissed and try to shag the bass player's bird.

Not necessarily, depends on the genre and band, how much time they had to track, edit, mix, and if the drummer was good enough, and if the original recorded drums sounded good enough due to loads of factors (instrument quality, tuning, room, recording equipment).

Shells tend to get replaced more than cymbals, there are plenty of rock albums with real cymbals and replaced shells.  Even if the performance is good sometimes things will get replaced for subjective tone/tuning reasons, again because it isn't practical/cost effective to re-track.

DiscoStu

I've tried and failed to get my head round programming drums. It always sounds shit when I do it.

octatonic

hobbio said:

It's all triggered samples too, right? I read somewhere that on any studio recording made after the mid 80's you're not hearing the real drum sound.

I totally agree that humanising is a million miles from a real human, but it's better than 100% computer. Also, it won't get pissed and try to shag the bass player's bird.

Real drum sound is tricky to pin down.

What is a real drum sound?

Where along the continuum of 'capturing the drums live in the room with no EQ or compression' right down to 'totally programmed drums' does it stop being 'real' and start being fake?

Sporky

octatonic said:

Where along the continuum of 'capturing the drums live in the room with no EQ or compression' right down to 'totally programmed drums' does it stop being 'real' and start being fake?

Depends on the person deciding. Usually it's just past what they do.

BahHumbug

Listen to records with drums on them. Listen carefully to the drums. Then try to emulate.....
In one of my bands we use a couple of Alesis SR18s, which are great. I reckon the key to programming drums so that they don't sound too robotic, is dynamic variation. The important thing is to emphasise the beats of the bar. If your hi hat is playing eighths, the hi hat hits that are in between the beats should be slightly quieter than the hits that are on the beat. Similarly for double hits on a snare or bass drum. The hit on the beat should be a bit louder than the hit off the beat. Drum rolls on a snare should accentuate the beats, such that not all the hits are the same volume. And so on.

PolarityMan

I think a lot of the key elements in a drummers style are actually in the linear portions of their vocabulary, being able to sokt things between the virtual hands and feet so that the accented beats of fills are "setup" in the same way as a drummer really helps.

Its not just about not hitting 4 things at once, there are certain things that have an incredibly strong pull when drumming, for example imagine you have a fill ending with an accented snare hit (maybe a flam) on the last beat of the bar. It is incredibly common for the note or notes immediately preceding that to be on the bass drum because it give the hands a break to setup the last hit, especially if it'd coming back around from the floor tom.

Sporky

PolarityMan said:

Its not just about not hitting 4 things at once

I didn't say it was,