Gorilla shot in a zoo

BigBearKris

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-36407643

Hmm... mixed feelings about this one.
Yes - I get it - the boy's life was threatened but hey - let's catch a gorilla - let's take it from its natural environment and put it into artificial jungle with a cage for the night. Just so little boys can watch it from distance. If the boy happens to climb up the fence we just shoot it. Very sad.

Two lions were shot dead in Chilean zoo as some idiot has entered their pen in apparent suicide attempt. Its not all right for wild animals to suffer from people's stupidity.

Garthy

The most startling thing was this went on for ten minutes? What the utter fuck were the parents & zoo keepers doing?

RobDavies

Garthy said:

The most startling thing was this went on for ten minutes? What the utter fuck were the parents & zoo keepers doing?

Shitting bricks, at a guess.

Flink_Poyd

Hard to judge the kids parents as he could have just wandered off etc but someone else must have surely noticed a kid going under or over a barrier.

BigBearKris

Also - they say that tranquilisers would take too long to start working - surely they could have tried them first and have lethal weapons at ready. Unless the furry dude would get angry with the initial shot.
Endangered specie - shot because people are fucking stupid.

Hertz32

Was it life threatening? Possibly.
Was the gorilla likely to kill the child? Not so sure... 

As has already been mentioned, this went on for ten minutes. From the footage, I couldn't see the gorilla being aggressive. It seemed almost protective of the child, taking it into a corner and hiding the child behind him when tourists started screaming and being agitated. These animals are among the most intelligent on the planet, if it was pissed off you'd know about it! 
Put yourself in this animals shoes; a baby human falls ten feet. None of the other humans come to help or look after it and then get angry when you try to see if it's okay. 

Humans and animals aren't so dissimilar, we'd most likely have the same instinct towards an injured animal whose own kind don't help it.
The gorilla would have known the child posed no threat to it. 

It may be the case that there was an observation area in the Gorillas cage where it knew humans would be closer, or came to feed it. 

The director of the Zoo itself has already said that the boy was not under attack when Harambe was shot. 

From the BBC news website:

"In a similar incident in 1986 on the island of Jersey, a Crown dependency of the UK, a five-year-old boy fell into a gorilla enclosure.

He lost consciousness and a silverback gorilla called Jambo famously stood guard over him, protecting him from other gorillas and stroking his back. When the boy came round he started to cry and the gorillas retreated, allowing keepers to rescue the child, Levan Merritt."

Typical modern american reactionary end to this incident. 

 

Flink_Poyd

Hertz32 said:

Was it life threatening? Possibly.
Was the gorilla likely to kill the child? Not so sure... 

As has already been mentioned, this went on for ten minutes. From the footage, I couldn't see the gorilla being aggressive. It seemed almost protective of the child, taking it into a corner and hiding the child behind him when tourists started screaming and being agitated. These animals are among the most intelligent on the planet, if it was pissed off you'd know about it! 
Put yourself in this animals shoes; a baby human falls ten feet. None of the other humans come to help or look after it and then get angry when you try to see if it's okay. 

Humans and animals aren't so dissimilar, we'd most likely have the same instinct towards an injured animal whose own kind don't help it.
The gorilla would have known the child posed no threat to it. 

It may be the case that there was an observation area in the Gorillas cage where it knew humans would be closer, or came to feed it. 

The director of the Zoo itself has already said that the boy was not under attack when Harambe was shot. 

From the BBC news website:

"In a similar incident in 1986 on the island of Jersey, a Crown dependency of the UK, a five-year-old boy fell into a gorilla enclosure.

He lost consciousness and a silverback gorilla called Jambo famously stood guard over him, protecting him from other gorillas and stroking his back. When the boy came round he started to cry and the gorillas retreated, allowing keepers to rescue the child, Levan Merritt."

Typical modern american reactionary end to this incident. 

 

I can understand your sentiment but it really is a difficult one to call. Gamble that nothing will happen or make sure the kids OK. I doubt they would want the kid to die or the horrific backlash if the kid had been ripped limb from limb. Unless your some sort of gorilla behaviour expert youre just going to be guessing.

monquixote

BigBearKris;1089699" said:

Also - they say that tranquilisers would take too long to start working - surely they could have tried them first and have lethal weapons at ready. Unless the furry dude would get angry with the initial shot.
Endangered specie - shot because people are fucking stupid.

It seems fairly obvious that shooting it with a tranquilliser would have resulted in a dead child.

Philly_Q

It's an awful story.

I can only hope the zoo authorities are not idiots and took what they considered the only course of action in the circumstances, but it's horrible that that beautiful intelligent creature had to end up dead.

Sambostar

Planet of the apes.  No sympathy for lions though as they kill hyenas in the wild for fun.

ICBM

7 billion humans and rising.

100,000 gorillas and falling.

Gorilla doesn't kill child.

Humans kill gorilla.

Makes you think doesn't it.

Joking.

Maybe...

boogieman

They should have shot the kid and saved the gorilla, we can easily replace human kids.

Ok, I'm joking. Sort of, because I feel more sad for the gorilla here.

How did that kid get into the enclosure in the first place? It's the US too, so I imagine the zoo will be getting its arse sued?

Chalky

Sounds like some folks on here are the type to keep bull terriers and say "No, soft as a kitten, they'd never hurt a child..."

If you really think the life of a gorilla is comparable to the risk to the life of a child, your values are broken and you need help.

Sambostar

PETA supporters no doubt Chalky.  Catch people's dogs to put them down.  Get that stupid botox'd wench off of X Factor to pose nudey for them.

Hertz32

Sambostar said:

Planet of the apes.  No sympathy for lions though as they kill hyenas in the wild for fun.

And we kill lions for fun, what's your point? 

Chalky said:

Sounds like some folks on here are the type to keep bull terriers and say "No, soft as a kitten, they'd never hurt a child..."

If you really think the life of a gorilla is comparable to the risk to the life of a child, your values are broken and you need help.

No, but I am the sort who would see the bull terrier protecting the child and speak up in its defence if it was put down. 
I fucking hate bull terriers by the way, and regard them with the same suspicion I would a gorilla. 

just because I say that a gorilla could be prtective and caring doesn't mean I'd tell you to go and pet it. 

Emp_Fab

Chalky;1090148" said:

If you really think the life of a gorilla is comparable to the risk to the life of a child, your values are broken and you need help.

You don't get to decide on whether people's "values are broken". People's values are their own, not communally owned. Personally, I think a gorilla's life is equal in importance to a human's - child or adult. Looking at it from a purely logical perspective, it does not make sense to kill a member of an important and dwindling species on the offchance it was going to suddenly get aggressive and kill a member of a species who's population is expanding hugely. The fact that I am also a member of that species doesn't change the logic.

I would never have shot the gorilla, unless it showed obvious aggressive intent. If that means taking a gamble on whether your sharpshooter can get a headshot in before he successfully rips off little Johnny's arm, then so be it.

ThePrettyDamned

This makes me so sad.

It makes me wonder - the zoo is, presumably, going to lose a lot of money over all of this, what with losing a rare and valuable animal. Whoever was supposed to be making sure the child didn't climb into the enclosure... Are they in any way liable for some of the losses? Whether that responsibility is someone at the zoo or the carer of the child. Or does this go down as a terrible, freak accident?

Of course, I'm not suggesting they are - it's a genuine question. I can imagine the zoo would be taken to the cleaners had the child gotten hurt. Perhaps that's what lead to the shooting, although I'm a horrible cynic.

I am glad the kid was safe, though.

littlegreenman

Not the first time this has happened is it, how exactly does a 3 year old accidentally fall into an enclosure containing a potentially very dangerous primate? The zoo and whoever was supposed to be watching the child are equally to blame here.

The only innocent party in this ended up being shot, for being in the wrong place at the wrong time and entirely through no fault of their own.

Sambostar

Hertz32 said:

Sambostar said:

Planet of the apes.  No sympathy for lions though as they kill hyenas in the wild for fun.

And we kill lions for fun, what's your point? 

I must admit I am a bit of a dog man.  Cat's just kill anything and are fairly anti social, I think you made the point yourself as it evens out.  Hyena, wild dogs and such are pack animals though.  Bears are OK too.  I think we should have a full on nature drive reintroducing black and grisly bears and wolves into London for the animal vigilantes.

Bottom line is economics I agree, the thing that drives our society and what our society is judged on.  Now no one gives two shits of an increase in GDP means the super rich horde all the cash, nor of an extra billion cars are on the roads, the bottom line if GDP.  It's the same with Gorillas.  Get your own species sorted out before you try and help another.

Like they advise on the airplanes, put your oxygen mask on first before helping your child.

Chalky

Emp_Fab;1090198" said:

[quote="Chalky;1090148"]
If you really think the life of a gorilla is comparable to the risk to the life of a child, your values are broken and you need help.

You don't get to decide on whether people's "values are broken". People's values are their own, not communally owned. Personally, I think a gorilla's life is equal in importance to a human's - child or adult. Looking at it from a purely logical perspective, it does not make sense to kill a member of an important and dwindling species on the offchance it was going to suddenly get aggressive and kill a member of a species who's population is expanding hugely. The fact that I am also a member of that species doesn't change the logic.

I would never have shot the gorilla, unless it showed obvious aggressive intent. If that means taking a gamble on whether your sharpshooter can get a headshot in before he successfully rips off little Johnny's arm, then so be it.
[/quote]

I don't decide the values, I'm just suggesting what a psychiatrist would say at your trial. Psychos are often very rational but are otherwise like you, having value settings that society does not accept. Thankfully, you will never be in a position of such responsibility - unless a fellow nutter interviews you!

axisus

It's a sad case but they had to do it. The zoo was at fault here for not securing the enclosure properly.