Chilcot inquiry and the Iraq war

Fretwired

It wasn't Blair's fault .. he deserves a knighthood and our thanks. The head of MI6 needs to be shot and lots of British soldiers need to face war crimes charges ..


And I'm not joking ..... (some of it has leaked) ...

Nitefly

"It was all that big boy George's fault - he made me do it!"

digitalscream

Fretwired said:

It wasn't Blair's fault .. he deserves a knighthood and our thanks. The head of MI6 needs to be shot and lots of British soldiers need to face war crimes charges ..


And I'm not joking ..... (some of it has leaked) ...

Wow. Just....wow.

To be honest, we've got much better things to be concentrating on as a country than trying him in court (which would be insanely expensive and a difficult prosecution). Much as I totally believe he needs to pay for it (as does Bush), the fact is that it's irrelevant to our current problems which are much more important right now.

Fretwired

Here you go ..

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/02/outrage-as-war-crimes-prosecutors-say-tony-blair-will-not-be-inv/

Fretwired

And here:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/chilcot-report-blame-mi6-dodgy-8330664

Clarky

I remember watching a military documentary about this a while ago [can't recall what it was called]

and there was a military lecturer from Sandhurst [I think] saying something about war generally having to have two pieces to it

the military piece and the political piece

the political piece sets the criteria for the military piece and defines it's objectives / limits [which does not have to be 'level the place']..

when the military piece has concluded the political piece has to take over from there..

the missing piece was the political piece at the end not being clearly thought through or well defined

Ro_S

Blair and others were allowed to get their replies in after the draft report so they could be incorporated into the final report.

Blair has been putting himself about on TV etc lately.    A couple of weeks ago he said there is no way one could have foreseen that the removal of Hussein would've led to a power vacuum and instability in Iraq.  Either he is stupid or he is a liar.

digitalscream

Ro_S said:

Blair and others were allowed to get their replies in after the draft report so they could be incorporated into the final report.

Blair has been putting himself about on TV etc lately.    A couple of weeks ago he said there is no way one could have foreseen that the removal of Hussein would've led to a power vacuum and instability in Iraq.  Either he is stupid or he is a liar.

Exactly. He was told this by folk at the top of the political and military piles, and ignored it. Hell, anyone with half a brain could've seen what was going to happen given the history in the region.

Fretwired

Ro_S said:

Blair and others were allowed to get their replies in after the draft report so they could be incorporated into the final report.

Blair has been putting himself about on TV etc lately.    A couple of weeks ago he said there is no way one could have foreseen that the removal of Hussein would've led to a power vacuum and instability in Iraq.  Either he is stupid or he is a liar.

Good point ...

mellowsun

The big mistakes with the Iraq war were disbanding the Iraqi army and not working with the Sunnis once Saddam was gone.

Mistakes that we repeated in Libya.

JezWynd

While Blair undoubtedly has to shoulder a lot of the responsibility, the image that sums up the war for me is -

"Hey Dad! Look at me, I'm a fighter pilot too!"

(The codpiece is a lovely touch)

mike_l

JezWynd said:

While Blair undoubtedly has to shoulder a lot of the responsibility, the image that sums up the war for me is -

"Hey Dad! Look at me, I'm a fighter pilot too!"

(The codpiece is a lovely touch)

You may jest, but Bush Jr did fly F106's in the Air National Guard........

JezWynd

mike_l said:

JezWynd said:

While Blair undoubtedly has to shoulder a lot of the responsibility, the image that sums up the war for me is -

"Hey Dad! Look at me, I'm a fighter pilot too!"

(The codpiece is a lovely touch)

You may jest, but Bush Jr did fly F106's in the Air National Guard........

Didn't know that. Nevertheless the oedipal references are strong in his choice.

Would Bush have proceeded without Blair's connivance? Genuine question I can't recall the details now. I do remember that Saddam's use of gas was a large part of the world's distaste toward him. Weapons of mass destruction, although they've come to define the reason for war weren't actually that uppermost in people's minds at the time. It was his treatment of the Kurds and other minorities that made him a pariah.

PolarityMan

JezWynd said:

mike_l said:

JezWynd said:

While Blair undoubtedly has to shoulder a lot of the responsibility, the image that sums up the war for me is -

"Hey Dad! Look at me, I'm a fighter pilot too!"

(The codpiece is a lovely touch)

You may jest, but Bush Jr did fly F106's in the Air National Guard........

Didn't know that. Nevertheless the oedipal references are strong in his choice.

Would Bush have proceeded without Blair's connivance? Genuine question I can't recall the details now. I do remember that Saddam's use of gas was a large part of the world's distaste toward him. Weapons of mass destruction, although they've come to define the reason for war weren't actually that uppermost in people's minds at the time. It was his treatment of the Kurds and other minorities that made him a pariah.

That's a bit revisionist . He kept kicking UN weapons inspectors out of the country then letting them in a couple of weeks later. The assumption all over the media at the time was that he was moving weapons as inspectors got close.

JezWynd

PolarityMan said:

JezWynd said:

mike_l said:

JezWynd said:

While Blair undoubtedly has to shoulder a lot of the responsibility, the image that sums up the war for me is -

"Hey Dad! Look at me, I'm a fighter pilot too!"

(The codpiece is a lovely touch)

You may jest, but Bush Jr did fly F106's in the Air National Guard........

Didn't know that. Nevertheless the oedipal references are strong in his choice.

Would Bush have proceeded without Blair's connivance? Genuine question I can't recall the details now. I do remember that Saddam's use of gas was a large part of the world's distaste toward him. Weapons of mass destruction, although they've come to define the reason for war weren't actually that uppermost in people's minds at the time. It was his treatment of the Kurds and other minorities that made him a pariah.

That's a bit revisionist . He kept kicking UN weapons inspectors out of the country then letting them in a couple of weeks later. The assumption all over the media at the time was that he was moving weapons as inspectors got close.

So it wasn't just Blair's fantasy, everyone was buying into it.

PolarityMan

Well suspect it might have been posturing but certainly at the time it seemed credible.

lasermonkey

F-102s, actually! ;-)

Fretwired

mellowsun said:

The big mistakes with the Iraq war were disbanding the Iraqi army and not working with the Sunnis once Saddam was gone.

Mistakes that we repeated in Libya.

Not having a plan for what to do when the fighting stopped was the biggest mistake. But then Halliburton needed everything shot to bits so they could make billions rebuilding the country and exploiting the oil business. I wonder if we'll find out where Blair really got all his wealth from?

digitalscream

PolarityMan said:

Well suspect it might have been posturing but certainly at the time it seemed credible.

I seem to remember there were rumblings that - in order to keep his grip on power - he needed his own people to believe that he had them. Thus it was something of a delicate balancing act - making your own people believe you've got weapons you don't have, while convincing the inspectors that you don't have the imaginary weapons you're trying to magic into existence for a different audience.

Troy

Ro_S said:

Blair and others were allowed to get their replies in after the draft report so they could be incorporated into the final report.

Blair has been putting himself about on TV etc lately.    A couple of weeks ago he said there is no way one could have foreseen that the removal of Hussein would've led to a power vacuum and instability in Iraq.  Either he is stupid or he is a liar.

Have to agree with you on this one. Given the timing, if that war went to a referendum then I'm sure the public would have voted no. I never agreed with that war as I could see what would happen, if I'm not wrong more civilians died then military and their is still not peace in that region. Democracy is not a fit all size and sometimes we have to let an iron fist dictator rule, especially with the amount of sectarianism in the ME.