AX8 vs FX8 vs CLR vs Rambler & Lazy J.... Some Thoughts...

Wazmeister

Initial Thoughts…

So, FX8 vs AX8 ?

Having surprisingly moved down the FX8 route last year, and dipped my toe in the Roland Blues Cube, I decided to try the AX8 modelling into ‘real’ amps and an FRFR cab - the Atomic CLR…

Whats the difference between the FX8 and the AX8 ?

Briefly;

▪ FX8: provides effects for the gigging musician who uses his own amp(s), including specific "no tone suck" support for 4CM (4 Cable Method). It provides dedicated relays (for amp channel switching and other amp functions).

▪ AX8: provides effects, including amp/cab modelling, for the gigging musician who doesn't use a traditional amplifier. It has multiple outputs, S/PDIF out and an effects loop.

Some Fractal notes here;

http://wiki.fractalaudio.com/axefx2/index.php?title=FX8_versus_AX8

The Atomic CLR

The Atomic CLR Neo is very good but not for me, I’m afraid; imho, it does not match the ‘amp in the room’ sound or feel. It can, however, be very good on some settings, and indeed in one instance, the AX8 Carr Rambler model sounded better and fuller than the real Rambler ! This may have been due that I’d added a 4x10 cab to the modelled sound… you really could here the difference.

But penultimately, the warmth of a real valve amp comes though. I also struggle to be constantly tweaking with the AX8 to get m y sounds…

It’s worth noting that the CLR sounds better as a raised PA speaker (about 4 foot from the ground).

Still, overall I want to use two amps in stereo and the real amps did it better.

Wazmeister

FX8 Strengths

Unity volume. It doesn't sound exciting does it ?! But you quite simply plug the FX8 into an amp (in my case a choice of 3 amps) and it instantly, without any need to adjust ANY settings, works at unity volume.

Simple to use. Plug and play. Stunning looper. Best verbs and delays Ive heard. Stunning in stereo use. No hum. No ground looper switching needed.  Silent. 

AX8 Strengths

Great with AX8 Edit via a computer. The ability to assign ANY setting or action to a footswitch is incredible. For example, I could assign an amp model, and switch it in and out. Great sounds, and versatile beyond imagination. 

At this point, the FX8 is definitely staying. I’m on the list for the MK 2 (not sure if I’ll actually prefer it or not…).

I shall experiment further with the AX8…

Beexter

I wonder if the ultimate 21st century solution is an FX8 into a Kemper?

jesone

I've run a CLR, and a Yamaha DXR10 with my Kemper & never really felt satisfied for live sound so went with the Kemper into the FX return of a Marshall DSL40C, and that was much better to my ears. 

I've just tried out a Matrix FR12 at rehearsal and its turned out to be the best solution for me.

kjdowd

I tried the stage source for FRFR and wasn't bowled over. Using the helix 4cm for now but on the list for ax8 and fx8. Wouldn't mind trying the ax8 thru a tube power section. Helix modelling certainly sounds good like that.

richh

I have a Kemper running into a Matrix FRFR cab.  I'm liking it, but have never gigged it or done proper comparisons with a range of other kit.  I was interested in how you're getting on with the Roland Blues Cube, compared to the other solutions?

Sometimes with modelling gear there are almost too many choices!  That's great to have, but ultimately it is probably better to have one absolutely great sounding amp.  Then you can use that as your basic building block and adjust for more / less gain and so on.  So on that basis, how does the Blues Cube stack up?

ennspek

Times they are a changing.

John_P

It's a tough choice, I just bought a Friedman asm to try my ax8 into frfr and see if I like it better. I think as a gigging solution it might not something I get from my cable amps but it's still very very nice and I'm going to give it another month of gigs to be sure.

If I go back to using my amps I'll use pedals and a g2 or similar though - I suspect part of my reservations are about immediate knob twiddling rather than setting despite the easy way fractal have set up the ax8 and fx8.

Be interesting to see how you get in with longer term tests as we're having similar debates.

Wazmeister

My issue with the CLR was its size and weights... Even though the Neo is lighter, and a lovely unit, it would actually be easier to transport the Rambler or the Lazy J.

Wazmeister

richh said:

I have a Kemper running into a Matrix FRFR cab.  I'm liking it, but have never gigged it or done proper comparisons with a range of other kit.  I was interested in how you're getting on with the Roland Blues Cube, compared to the other solutions?

Sometimes with modelling gear there are almost too many choices!  That's great to have, but ultimately it is probably better to have one absolutely great sounding amp.  Then you can use that as your basic building block and adjust for more / less gain and so on.  So on that basis, how does the Blues Cube stack up?

Rich, i think part of the problem for me is how simple I generally like things; the Blues Cube is simplicity itself, as is the FX8...

Likewise, the FX8 stereo into the Rambler and LJ/BC is a thing of simple beauty

Si_

Wazmeister said:

My issue with the CLR was its size and weights... Even though the Neo is lighter, and a lovely unit, it would actually be easier to transport the Rambler or the Lazy J.

That's why I ended up getting a DXR10. I'm sure the CLR sounds better but theDXR10 is much lighter. I've used a medeller on and off for years and you have to nor get sucked into constant tweaking, that's why I like the AX8 the controls are changes easier without having to browse through menus. Unfortunatly I've not had a chance to play mine outside of the bedroom yet so can't comment too much on the sounds at volume, but y out can't beat the flexibility.

jimification

Interesting to read these impressions. I wanted something similar for home playing and recording myself and eventually last week bought a Kemper (toaster), a Camplifier (very small stereo power amp that fits neatly into the back of the toaster) and a used Vaporizer combo amp...

I was looking for the "amp in the room" feel too. I did think about building a kind of "Kemper combo" myself but ended up buying a Fender Vaporizer as an easy way to get a nice looking, smallish 2x10 cab. I've wired this up so I can plug the Kemper / Camplifier into the Vaporizer in stereo (using the camplifier as power amp, so bypassing the Vaporizer's amp department completely). I can also plug both speakers back in and just use the Vaporizer normally (it actually sounds pretty nice, though it's just a clean tone at home volumes)

Of course, by using a guitar cab, the "cab section" of the chain is fixed, so you exchange the tonal flexibility and variety of FRFR for a bit more "real amp" feel of guitar speakers. 90% of the time, I find this setup sounds better with cab sims off (as you might expect), so the Vape speakers are doing the "filtering". They're rebadged and I suspect they're relatively cheap, so at some point I'll probably replace them with something better - I'm tempted to get something like one greenback and one Jensen style to cover Fender to Marshall ground, though I don't know if that would screw up the stereo somewhat (if the Jensen projects much more top end than the greenback, for example) might be better off with two more neutral speakers...

Though modellers can sound very good through FRFR, I think you have almost the stiffest competition going there with the Lazy J and Rambler - two of the absolute nicest amps of their type (and very different sounding left and right I would imagine), Whatever the setup, I would have thought that's going to be pretty tough to compete with!

octatonic

Waz, 

Have you tried using the AX8 as an FX8- as in not using the amp sims?

I love the FX8 but wondering if the extra program features are worth it versus the alleged minor dip in clarity, according to the Fractal forum chaps.

Wazmeister

octatonic said:

Waz, 

Have you tried using the AX8 as an FX8- as in not using the amp sims?

I love the FX8 but wondering if the extra program features are worth it versus the alleged minor dip in clarity, according to the Fractal forum chaps.

I have mate, and it works very well...

You can STILL use amps (and cabs for that) with the AX8 and a real amp; it just takes some time to organise and set up...

The pay-off is ease of use I guess. The FX8 is in and working instantly; the AX8 needs more work. 

But the option to have assignable footswitches for anything is really good. I've worked on a settings using a vibrolux model into the Rambler, with a hint of verb... using the virtual FX Loop in the AX8 to create a second path which has verb and reverse delay into the lazy J; epic !!

I'm leaning towards keeping and using both maybe...

Wazmeister

Here, I've tried two separate feeds; one into the Rambler (top one) and one into the Lazy J (bottom path).

Awesome results, with amps, drives, boosts etc all foot switchable in and out.

http://i1160.photobucket.com/albums/q493/Warren3333/Screen Shot 2016-07-08 at 07.42.26.png

kjdowd

So I've come up on the Ax8 waiting list. Going to get one and a/b it with the Helix and keep the one I prefer. I've been using the Helix (and gigging it) and been really happy, but I just have that memory of the fx8 delays and verbs...

So, the prediction is that it's going to be the Ax8 I keep based on quality of sounds, and because I don't need the extra features and flexibility of the Helix. Watch this space. 

Benson

I'm a long term AxeFX user having owned dozens of amps over the last 35 years and never quite found the tone I was looking for from any of them. I now run a pair of CLR cabs and have very recently moved from an AxeFX II to an AX8. Couldn't be happier, if you can't get a tone out of these things that makes you wet your pants in excitement the issue isn't the technology but more likely how well you've dialled it in. There is a learning curve. 

handsomerik

Thanks for these thoughts Waz. Very helpful. Have you tried running the ax8 into the fx return of the blues cube? I'm considering a blues cube, both as a great amp in its own right but also as a power amp for the helix's amp modelling by going into the fx return.